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Pirates: Part Two

Discussion in 'General Yachting Discussion' started by rocdiver, Apr 10, 2009.

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  1. rgsuspsa

    rgsuspsa Member

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    47Viking:
    Four pirates below deck (out of sight) pop up scrambling with no advance
    notice to U.S. forces and they are going to take all four moving pirates on a bobbing lifeboat, from a moving vessel without endangering the hostage in proximity to the lifeboat? Not realistic in my opinion. More likely to result in the hostage in the water shot by a pirate, or worse, by friendly fire. The sea is not a shooting range, its real life with all its imponderables. Definitely not IPSC.

    rgsuspsa
  2. Opcn

    Opcn Senior Member

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    Those are all factors independent of caliber, and ones that I would agree with you on; however that doesn't affect the premise I disagreed with.
  3. OutMyWindow

    OutMyWindow Senior Member

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  4. Opcn

    Opcn Senior Member

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    NPR said it had an italian crew about three hours ago.
  5. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    I wouldn't be overly concerned with the tug. The news is rightly concentrating on the American captain in the lifeboat. This is where the stand is being made and the example will be set. We will either end piracy here or give up the seas.
  6. Opcn

    Opcn Senior Member

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    BBC reports that the tug is American owned, 10 Italian crew,6 of other European nationalities.

    They also report that lots and lots of people are pissed off at how much attention the American is getting.
  7. Capt Bill11

    Capt Bill11 Senior Member

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    It happened at night with no warning. And the Navy ship is standing off at a safe distance reported to be 200 yards or more.

    Vaporizing the lifeboat while the captain is in the water right next to it would, in all likelyhood, only end up killing all.
  8. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    What is this a competition? Sorry, but anybody who feels that way is just plain stupid or a pirate sympathizer trying to divert attention. Maybe they need to watch a sports match. The battle lines have been drawn and they are around the lifeboat.
  9. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    Hi,

    I have had BBC News 24 going most of the day in the background and been to their website for their News Update segment and not seen or heard anything like the comments you have written about above.

    There should be equal concern for all nationalities of seafarers caught up in this, it just so happens that there is now a unique situation where the pirates are stopped from getting away and the captive they have happens to be an American, I am sure if it were any other nationality the international response would be the same.

    Oh NYCAP- I will be watching sports later in the shape of MotoGP from Qatar
  10. Natalie

    Natalie New Member

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    The question I have is with all of the privacy activity, why are these ships and others not armed? With unemployment rates from the US military at over 11%, there are well-trained people available to work on these vessels to provide security, and perhaps those with safety-rescue-medical-engineering training, offer the added benefit of assistance in other emergency situations.

    Additionally, if governments would enforce insurance companies to comply, rates could then be lowered due to the reduced risk from piracy and loss-of-life.

    Please enlighten me.
  11. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Strictly political. However that worm may be turning now.
  12. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    Hi,

    The Arming of Merchant Vessels is a real hot potato.

    Where do you get the teams on and off these ships? Who takes responsibility for shooting the wrong people?

    You refer to un employed US Military- are you suggesting that it is only US Shipping that is suffering at the hands of these lawless brigands?
  13. OutMyWindow

    OutMyWindow Senior Member

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    Private Security Counters Pirates
    April 2009
    By Laura Spadanuta
    Piracy attacks against ships rose 11 percent from 2007 to 2008, with the increase most attributable to activity in the Gulf of Aden, off the East coast of Somalia, where 111 of the 293 worldwide piracy cases occurred, according to the International Maritime Bureau. The pirates were mainly from Somalia, and their goal was ransom money.

    Although the United Nations and international forces have acted to prevent ship hijackings, they cannot protect every ship that travels through this vast and strategic stretch of water. Some shipping companies are turning to private security for help.

    One group that is offering security to ships traveling through the Gulf of Aden is Espada Logistics and Security Group, headquartered in San Antonio, Texas. Piracy prevention hasn’t been an easy task, according to Jim Jorrie, Espada’s president. The main problem is getting the security officers onto the ships solely for its Gulf of Aden stretch.

    It’s difficult to negotiate a base of operations in the countries surrounding the Gulf of Aden, says Jorrie, and it’s especially challenging to get crew members’ weapons in and out of these countries. What Jorrie’s group is doing for now is putting officers on a ship at its port of origin.

    The officers provide antipiracy training en route to the Gulf of Aden, then focus on attack prevention as they travel through the gulf. They leave the ship at its point of destination.

    The problem with this approach is that it stretches what should be a three-day job into nearly three weeks in some cases. “It’s not a great financial model for us or for them because it ties up a team,” says Jorrie. He was negotiating a deal with one of the gulf border countries to set up a more permanent base of operation as this article went to press.

    Most of Jorrie’s security team members have military training and experience defending ships. Espada preps each team on assignments and responsibilities. Once the team is on the vessel, it pinpoints watch positions and vantage points where force can be used if needed.

    Jorrie says a watch is the most effective way to prevent a pirate attack. He recommends thermal imagers or other nightvision products for the darkness. Espada trains ship crews about watch length; eight hours is too long, and rotations are important. The Espada teams also train the crew to mobilize fire hoses and other nonlethal means to repel pirates.

    If pirates are spotted, Jorrie’s team will let them know that the ship is well-armed, the goal being to deter the attack rather than to engage and capture the pirates.

    Before taking any action, ship security must verify that these are not just fishing boats. If the vessels turn out to be suspicious, security will try to determine whether the individuals on board are carrying weapons—guns were used in 139 incidents in 2008, up from 72 in 2007. Ship security can then shoot a “tracer round” of flare-type shots or even shoot real rounds around the perimeter of the vessel but far enough away not to hit anyone. “Our greatest desire is to have them figure out early on that this is not low-hanging fruit,” says Jorrie.

    Jorrie’s group also trains ship crews on how to react if they are boarded, making sure that they will know which alerts to sound and what safe parts of the ship to lock themselves into.

    If pirates do board a vessel, it is challenging for countries or the international community to help. The recent pirates come mainly from Somalia. Because Somalia is a largely anarchic state, diplomacy is difficult.

    Having authorities confront the pirates is undesirable because an armed standoff with a ship of heavily armed pirates could be deadly for crew members. Additionally, the ships, cargo, and crew members are often from different countries, making it unclear which authorities would be responsible for the rescue.

    That’s why the ship and cargo companies often turn to private-sector risk-management companies. These companies provide expertise in hostage negotiation and crisis management that can be valuable in piracy cases. One such company is Clayton Consultants, Inc., a Triple Canopy Company, headquartered in Herndon, Virginia.

    The company’s ultimate goal is to secure the crew’s safety, says Jack Cloonan, Clayton’s president. It doesn’t take a law-enforcement or military perspective, meaning that the company’s objective is not to get the bad guys.

    In one case that Clayton specialist Leslie Edwards worked on, the government of Puntland, an autonomous region of Somalia, publicly threatened to attack the pirates, and Edwards had to involve the governments of various countries to exert diplo-

    matic pressure on Puntland not to attack. The situation became even more serious once the pirates heard about the threats.

    Cloonan recommends having a negotiation strategy, part of which includes not acquiescing to the first ransom offer. Companies need to understand that the process is complicated and likely to take more than a few hours, says Cloonan.

    The company’s work goes on mainly behind the scenes. An authorized representative of the ship owner’s company usually interacts directly with the pirates. This helps conceal the security company’s involvement from the pirates.

    Often, the most challenging aspect of the negotiation is figuring out how to hand off the money. Some options are air drops, sea handovers, and handovers on land.

    Each choice is risky due to the possibility that pirates will take the money and not release the crew or that the money will be stolen. Clayton’s piracy cases have ended successfully with the recovery of the crews and ships.
  14. Natalie

    Natalie New Member

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    No, not all all. My only knowledge of unemployment rates is of the US Military, which is why I used it as example. The same could apply for any nation with military-trained people who need employment. The reasoning is that insurance companies could be urged/forced to reduce rates with "highly skilled and trained" security with "steady performance/mental-health records," rather than what the insurance companies could argue are erratic people with deadly weapons.

    As for risk, deterring and warding off potential pirates with full-time, on-board security seems less risky and less costly (financially and in terms of life) than having hostages taken, ships and cargo stolen, and the cost of government ships and crews coming to the aide of victims. Which filled mansion would one rob first: one with an alarm or one that has not had an alarm installed yet?
  15. FabianAndrades

    FabianAndrades New Member

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    You can't be more on point !! Blow them all away ... I have no doubt that we have the capability to do it, what are we waiting for ? For somebody to get killed ?
  16. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    The right moment. The right opportunity. 5 days on a lifeboat with no power, sloshing around with one terrorist who has a hole in his hand from an ice pick can't be fun. 24 long hours in each day smelling each other's stink, wondering which breath might be their last. Patience. Time is on the side of the Navy. Anybody know what the temps and sea conditions are in the area?
  17. Natalie

    Natalie New Member

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    Good news at last! It will be interesting to hear Capt. Phillips reports. This is a good Easter outcome, particularly for the loved ones of the Captain.
  18. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    MSNBC is reporting that he was freed in a rescue operation by the US Navy Seals. (1) "pirate" is in custody and they believe the other 3 are dead. They said the life raft would have reached temps of about 100*F during the day. Piracy just became not such a good career choice.:D
  19. Opcn

    Opcn Senior Member

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    Good to hear, I'm actually a little glad that one made it into custody, any one ever watch the old movies where they would kill all but one of the enemy and let the last one go back and tell everyone else how bruitally the others were killerd.

    FYI I get BBC America on NPR at newsbreaks or from 12:00 to 6:00 AM.
  20. Capt Bill11

    Capt Bill11 Senior Member

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    Terrific news! I hope all is as reported.
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