Discussion in 'General Yachting Discussion' started by rocdiver, Apr 10, 2009.
You are saying that UNICEF in Kenya is giving our donations to pirates? Never heard this before...
It is very little or nothing compared to how much was taken from them!
We must have looked at two maybe related, but different stories on the page you listed. I read: http://www.unicef.org/media/media_59225.html
What I was saying is that although we feel for those suffering in Somalia, I don't believe that most aid given there will reach those in need, more likely those in greed instead. Some places, money and aid isn't the cure.
Think of the populations of New York and Chicago together. That many people are at risk right now and over the coming months. Many are walking by foot for weeks to reach camps further west, where aid organizations are trying to help with nutrition and medical help.
If you have a better cure than assisting these people, go ahead.
That will come as a shock to the World Health Organization!
It also brings into question the credibility and motives of any group that would publish such nonsense about such easily researched issues. I would call that low rent propaganda aimed at ignorant rabble just to stir them up for reasons that most likely won't benefit anyone other than the sleezebags who published it.
The last numbers the WHO has places the overall Somali cancer mortality rate at around 4 percent.
And to put that into a slightly different perspective, the US has an overall rate around 24 percent.
Sorry but I don't. Maybe someone or some country that is able to care for their own today does. Most western nations only have questions today; not money nor answers. I heard a house in LA recently sold for over $50M. Maybe the owner will use his money or maybe the owner of a large yacht will do it.
The owner of a large yacht is already helping to support thousands of workers around the world.
If that owner were to divide the yacht's purchase price plus a year's operating expenses and donate it to each citizen of Somalia he would no longer support thousands of workers and the Somalians would continue to die at the same rate for all the same reasons.
Maybe that aid needs to be flowing in this direction. Haven't done the math, but I suspect that somewhere around the population of Chicago is unemployed, homeless or has no access to healthcare or good nutrition right here. We won't even go into those who were devastated by hurricanes, floods, droughts and tornadoes in recent years. My donations today go straight into the hands of the needy (for which there is no tax write-off) and to a very few, very select and very well investigated charities. Not to some Somali militiamen who says that some may make it to those in need after he gets more guns and some more boats for piracy.
Same can be said of most western nations today. All I know is that the answer isn't in my meager bank account.
From today's news: "With the clock ticking toward an Aug. 2 deadline to raise the U.S. debt ceiling, Obama and the senior Republican in Congress, House Speaker John Boehner, worked toward a plan that could include up to $3 trillion in spending cuts but might leave tax reform for later, congressional aides said." Will that $3T come from foreign aid or from the pockets of our own poor and elderly?
All I can say is that like all wars and other inequities, if someone with the power to end them didn't profit from their continuation, they would not exist.
I was expecting a post on pirates, or even something slightly to do with boating.
Not politics, for that all that’s needed is watching CNN, or for a dose of righteous rightwinging, go for Fox News.
So back to the thread?
Unfortunately politics (and money) is an integral part of the piracy situation in Somalia. The key to winning a conflict isn't so much in your armament as it is in cutting your adversary off from theirs.
Well digressing from that to the money and aid given to the starving people on a continent different from the one you live in certainly is not a discussion on "piracy" unless you have a solid base linking them to each other.
Saying that you make donations to those closer to home is great, good for you. That does not mean other people across the sea are less deserving. Besides, the ONLY way to make certain your donation gets to those who truly need it is by giving your time directly to that particular cause, and no I am not going to go on about how many cents in each dollar donated ends up in assistance to the needy (very little), it is the way it works and better to give something than not.
So to stop the pirates by not assisting the starving is a flawed argument. If my family had no equity in the lives they led and went hungry, I too would look to the only way to feed them. As bad as things are in our 1st world countries, we are still better off than the vast majority of human kind.
I don't know what you read or if you read the maritime industry press, those publications that deal with shipping, maritime insurance, the politics of trade routes, and so on but they are full of editorials and commentary regarding the causes and solutions to piracy.
A great deal of the dialog has to do with social conditions on the Horn of Africa and its contribution to the rise in piracy. Regardless of what you want to believe or wish were the single truth, the solid base links them to each other.
I am linking the social conditions in the Horn of Africa to pircacy.
My point, obviously not made clear enough, is that by not giving aid to the starving is not the answer. People with nothing to lose will act accordingly.
Because people get murdered, robbed etc. in the worst suburbs of Detroit, Johannesburg or Rio, it does not mean stopping aid to those suburbs will change the situation.
As for a "single truth" being a solution, well said, there is not one or it would have been imposed already.
I certainly don't suggest I have ANY answers to this.
1) You're assuming that the aid will actually get to those in need and not the terrorists all around them, which is highly unlikely. 2) The Somalies aren't friends nor allies of any western nation that I know of. You might remember how the crew of our Blackhawk were treated. Why help people who hate you?
Yes, and the closest targets are the malitias, al-Qaeda and pirates. Seems to me that this famine could be the cure to several problems. Some might call it karma. I send them aid after they start sending aid to our seniors who are about to lose their access to medical care.
I cannot "debate" with people who have "absolutes" as answers.
For political arguments/debates there are many forums available.
I am here to learn, enjoy, share and sometimes even contribute on a subject that is my passion and pleasure.
A subject you, and many on this forum can contribute very meaningful, intelligent and appropriate posts.
On the subject of diverse cultures, their motivations to harm others and socio/economic dynamics of a desperate population you are on a leaky boat heading to the rocks.
For you to say:
"Seems to me that this famine could be the cure to several problems. Some might call it karma."
is below you and your intellect, I hope, as I have enjoyed many of your posts on boating.
Now I refer to my original post on this thread and will not post again regarding "Pirates".
The fault of the situation which is always recurring is that of the those running that peice of Country .. yet the media fails to state this
UK has given African nations millions over the years and still i see the same recurring issues .. And the African Union imo just don't like helping each other they should have invested and built de salination plants that makes sea water drinkable ... The African contiment is surrounded by Water and the highest peaks is coverd in frozen ice again another source of water
But what to the leaders do squander the cash instead of sorting the issues
Would love to hear Bob geldof's and Bono's excuses lol
Irony of the whole situation is ..
Somali's are hank marvin .. yet some of those rob and steal and murder .. yet were having to feed these people that also rob steal and committ murder
Same with help the libyans [ cos they have Oil ] whilst sit back and watch the syrian's, burmese , tibetian's get murded
Double standard's of politicans
If you care to look behind the headlines you will no doubt find out that a lot of the internal strife which has supposedly led to the current state of affairs in the area has originally and continues to be pretty clearly polarised along tribal lines and affiliations.
Tribalism is alive and well in these and many other countries and is as well supported and followed as the religion that often accompanies them.
Look at that, I have mentioned Politics and Religion on YF in the same posting. I will now don my traditional dress and blend into the masses