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Pirates in the Carribbean

Discussion in 'General Yachting Discussion' started by dennismc, Nov 6, 2009.

  1. dennismc

    dennismc Senior Member

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    posted on Latitude 38..

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    Pirate Attack in the Caribbean

    November 6, 2009 – Nicaraguan Banks, Caribbean Sea

    While Somali pirates demand $7 million — or the release from custody of seven comrades — for the return of British cruisers Paul and Rachel Chandler, Derek Holden of the Privateer 35 Albatross III reports that well-known Michigan racer Juan Pablo 'J.P.' Del Solar Goldsmith was the victim of a pirate attack aboard his Beneteau 47.7 Blu Interlude at the Honduran/Nicaraguan border. "He just got to Panama a few days ago," Holden writes. "When he told us that he was attacked by pirates, I suggested he write to Latitude so other sailors know what happened. Here's his report:

    "'At 0700 on Monday, October 26, 2009, we were underway along the Nicaraguan Banks, about 16 miles off Cabo Gracias a Dios (15° 4.7' N, 82° 55.1 W). We were flagged down by a 25-ft green panga with four men on board. Some of the pirates were wearing paramilitary clothing. We slowed the boat down, then the pirates pulled shotguns and pistols and boarded us. At gun point, they tied up all three of us and took cameras, money, the dinghy outboard, watches, sunglasses, handheld GPS and VHF radios and cell phones. They were aboard for about 45 minutes searching the boat for valuables. The attack was reported to the Coast Guard at San Andreas Island, Colombia, on Tuesday October 27, 2009.'"

    This area of the Caribbean is not known for piracy. We're thrilled that the crew of Blu Interlude came away without injury and sincerely hope this attack was an anomaly, not a sign of things to come.
  2. Captmike

    Captmike New Member

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    Self Protection

    I will not give into observation of laws that are only observed by honest people. We carry a full aray of weapons onboard and have no issue to use them in order to protect our vessel. I am tired of all the crap when people just roll over and play dead. Where are all the real men nowadays.

    The law of the sea for me is, if you intend to board without permission, then you better be prepared to die. But that's just me, I am sort of funny like that.
  3. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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  4. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Hopefully he took some with him. My own philosophy has never been a need to win; just to make sure whoever takes me on loses. Plus, I'd rather die in a fight than be subjected as a defenseless victim to what may come next. I just don't have a lot of faith in the fairness, mercy and humanity of pirates. The NYPD once took the position that you should surrender to an attacker. Although they won't advocate fighting back (probably for liability reasons) they've completely backed off their earlier position. They now advocate assessing the situation and doing whatever you feel gives you the best chance of survival.
  5. YES!

    YES! Senior Member

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    You had best not attempt to sail internationally with weapons on board lest the operator (read: captain) lands in jail and the owner has his yacht confiscated.

    In some countries it is a criminal offense even if report that you have weapons while clearing customs. For those who dare, when the explosive sniffing dogs pick up the scent of gunpowder from your ammo; the chain saws soon follow to discover the location of the "secret" gun locker.

    A word to the "wiser than I" from a certified gun-toter.
  6. Captmike

    Captmike New Member

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    Just a simple quote

    "And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to illegally board my vessel and destroy my brothers. And you will know me to be the Master of the Ship when I lay my vengeance upon thee."
  7. creepin

    creepin New Member

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    The world is going to hell in a handbasket......


    Captmike I'm with you on this one.....
  8. CSkipR

    CSkipR Member

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    Wherever I go internationally you will find guns on board. "Yes" you may have a different approach but I will have my weapons aboard and will defend my vessel. You can try talking to them.
  9. YES!

    YES! Senior Member

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    I hear very clear voices of inexperience and lack of knowledge concerning international maritime procedures and port state authority.

    Good luck telling the rest of the world how YOU are going to operate.

    It will be interesting to see how long your services are retained when the owner's yacht is confiscated for weapon violations.
  10. creepin

    creepin New Member

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    My friend I am not going to turn this into a pissing match I understand there are laws and different rules in these areas of the world I just dont agree with them.So case in point I dont go there.It's strange to me all over the world you are aloud to defend your land(holds true to before any of us were even though about,Time and time again)but we are not able to defend our floating(per say Land).............I know lets lay down, and open up our wallets.....Here you go have a nice life.......Bad guy...

    Buy the way I am not looking at it as a employee (services retained) but as owner of (Mine).I think of my wife and children on board.
  11. dennismc

    dennismc Senior Member

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    Reprint from United Nations Convention on Law of Sea as it relates to innocent passage of foreign flagged vessels, note!! reference to weapons, gives the locals pretty broad license!!!


    Article19

    Meaning of innocent passage

    1. Passage is innocent so long as it is not prejudicial to the peace, good order or security of the coastal State. Such passage shall take place in conformity with this Convention and with other rules of international law.

    2. Passage of a foreign ship shall be considered to be prejudicial to the peace, good order or security of the coastal State if in the territorial sea it engages in any of the following activities:

    (a) any threat or use of force against the sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence of the coastal State, or in any other manner in violation of the principles of international law embodied in the Charter of the United Nations;

    (b) any exercise or practice with weapons of any kind;

    (c) any act aimed at collecting information to the prejudice of the defence or security of the coastal State;

    (d) any act of propaganda aimed at affecting the defence or security of the coastal State;

    (e) the launching, landing or taking on board of any aircraft;

    (f) the launching, landing or taking on board of any military device;

    (g) the loading or unloading of any commodity, currency or person contrary to the customs, fiscal, immigration or sanitary laws and regulations of the coastal State;

    (h) any act of wilful and serious pollution contrary to this Convention;

    (i) any fishing activities;
  12. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    I absolutely agree with fighting back to the death and having weapons on board. Guns however would not be my first choice for several reasons; not the least of which is that a stint of Midnight Express from a foreign jail really puts a damper on things. All that aside, that document actually prohibits the use of weapons, not the posession of them. You'll likely find that there's a good chance local laws might address guns though.
  13. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    Hi,

    While everyone has a thought on how best to deal with it we should also consider where most of the posters consider to be an international voyage.

    I know of a vessel where the Captain entered a Foreign European port and eeclared he was carrying weapons onboard, the pile of doo doo that appeared was overwhelming so he left in the dead of night.

    3 yrs later with a different Captain (who was oblivious to the previous incident) aboard the same yacht went to the same port and that pile of doo doo was waiting on the dock, this time to prevent an escape the Master was taken to jail and there was a guard stationed at the boat. It took 6 months to sort this out and cost the Owner lots plus the Captain 3 months of his liberty when he was the completely innocent party.
  14. dennismc

    dennismc Senior Member

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    International voyage, real simple...I have a boat in Florida, registeredin Canada,
    on my trips to the Bahamas or going coastal I can claim international voyage status thus enjoying the rights and restrictions enjoyed by the UN charter.
  15. Ormond Bert54

    Ormond Bert54 Senior Member

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    I would want a couple of long range big bore semi-auto's with scopes - of course - if the countries where I'm traveling do not permit the arms ... what a mess.

    I think it's up to our government to come down hard on pirates and not allow them to escape.

    Just like a barricade situation with hostages ... does SWAT ever allow the perp to escape? no
  16. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    Hi,

    Whilst a trip to either the US or Bahamas on your Canadian registered boat is an International Voyage I assume you are coastal cruising in the US on a Cruising Permit or does your Canadian Registration exempt you from that?

    A coastal trip up or down the US East coast can hardly be called an International voyage if you start and end in a US port.

    Please let us know when you have gone further afield and been found to be carrying undeclared firearms how effective the piece of paper with the UN Letterhead was in getting you underway again with all your possessions intact and on-board
  17. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    If planning a visit to NYC it would be a good idea to leave an extra 365 days (mandatory sentence 1st offense) for plan B. On the up side, the UN is right here if you'd like to file an appeal with them.
  18. dennismc

    dennismc Senior Member

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    Coastal cruising is not covered under International voyage unless actually heading to International waters but allows for port entry whilst doing so.
    Here in Vancouver VTS asks all departing commercial traffic " final destination" and "next port of call"

    While I cruise the Coasts of Florida it is under cruising permit, but, am still covered by the International treaties regarding foreign flagged vessels, the US of course is more tolerant of firearms on board, provided I would have Canadian firearms certificate, no exemption, except for guns with less than 1500 ft per sec. velocity (500 ft in Canada). I have no need of the UN office in NY or elsewhere, I value my families and my own life too much to venture into hostile foreign water, regardless of any UN or other convention.
  19. YES!

    YES! Senior Member

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    Equating Canada to US transits as international voyages is really a stretch. It is clear by the number of shootings that the US is the most permissive of gun use and transport in the world. Only the bad guys, the police and military are similarly armed elsewhere.

    Your scenario will not survive in the real international maritime world. You go to jail, your vessel is confiscated, and then who takes care of your family?
  20. dennismc

    dennismc Senior Member

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    Well, my scenario ? cruising Florida and the Bahamas will lead to your following quote........

    "Your scenario will not survive in the real international maritime world. You go to jail, your vessel is confiscated, and then who takes care of your family?"

    Interesting indeed, all I did was post and extract for general info and post where I cruised, must have missed something in between, could be an age thing I suppose..oh..well...
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