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People killed by props

Discussion in 'General Yachting Discussion' started by Pascal, Apr 3, 2018.

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  1. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    Under-crewing is a big problem. Under training on these procedures. However, one asks the question and managing the consumption of alcohol and those who consume it is also of great importance. You can't just say it's part of what you're selling and include drunkenness and excess and not proper control in that. It's a shame that the only way some can enjoy boating is drunk.

    I'm not saying drinking had anything to do with this one because I have no idea. However, we often see those who have been drinking to excess taking unnecessary risks around boats.
  2. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    On the other hand, The Darwin Theory comes to my mind.
  3. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    Guests and drinking is one thing, but crew procedure is another. It s pretty chilling to hear a splash at the stern when docking at night. We never handle line from the swim platform or any area with out railings.
  4. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    I know you can get a 6 pack at 18 years old. However, I'm pretty sure you need to be 21 for a USCG 100 ton Master. And, I'm pretty sure the vessel in question is over 100 GT, 100 NT.
  5. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    From the boats web site;
    MIAMI VICE is a 28.95m luxury yacht, built in Italy by Intermarine - Italy and delivered in 1998. Her top speed is 55.0kn and her power comes from two 2250.0hp MTU diesel engines. She can accommodate up to 7 people with 2 crew members waiting on their every need.

    I'm sure the boat is under 100GT. This is not a big MY, there is not much internal volume.
    Quick comparison is the Wally speed monster at 36M, 95GTs. https://www.*********************/yachts/the-superyacht-directory/galeocerdo--62555

    More thoughts, Miami Vice is not an inspected vessel. Can a 20 year old get a 12Pax?
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2018
  6. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    Age requirement is 19 years old. For 100 Ton, 720 days, only 180 required to be 51 Ton or above. Still would have required nearly full time on boats starting at 16.
  7. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    Unless it has changed since I got mine, 180 days on a boat 34 GT will get you 100GT. They give 1.5 the experience rounded up to the next one. My 53 is 37GT and enough to get 100GT
  8. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    My how things have changed.
    I remember 50 & 60, then 75 then 100 ton ratings (or very near like). Based on similar ship duty plus approx 10 got your rating.
    Was thinking about a 200T and wondering how to get it based on what I could remember from the older guide lines.
    Seems I could of qualified for it long ago.
    Next renewal, I'll be 200 with endorsements.

    This and $4 will still only get me a cup of coffee. Just looks better on my resume.
  9. Seasmaster

    Seasmaster Senior Member

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  10. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    Not to defend the mostly incompetent local media but i have a feeling the 21 year old was the official paper captain and while the 49 year old was the guy actually running the boat... since you have to be a US citizen to have a Master and run more than 6 pax, they used the kid to be "legal"

    I bet the plan quickly fell apart once the USCG started asking questions...
  11. 30West

    30West Member

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    http://www.miamiherald.com/news/article208781149.html

    Charter boat captain charged in passenger death

    MIAMI


    A Florida charter boat captain has been charged in a death that occurred during one of his trips.

    A U.S. Department of Justice news release says 49-year-old Mauricio Alvarez was arrested last week at the Fort Lauderdale-Hollywood International Airport as he attempted to board an overseas flight. He was charged with misconduct or neglect of a ship officer that resulted in the death.

    Court records say Alvarez was operating a motor yacht called "Miami Vice" with seven passengers on April 1. Officials say the boat stopped in Biscayne Bay, between Miami and Miami Beach, and some of the passengers went swimming. The complaint says Alvarez engaged the engines at some point, and one of the swimmers was hit and killed by the propeller.


    The complaint also says Alvarez didn't have a U.S. captain's license.
  12. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    100 GRT – 180 days (25%) of service on vessels of 51 GRT or above, OR 360 days of service on vessels of 34 GRT or above.

    50 GRT – 180 days (25%) of service on vessels of 26 GRT or above, OR 360 days (50%) of service on vessels of 17 GRT or above.

    Data from the USCG: https://www.dco.uscg.mil/Portals/9/NMC/pdfs/checklists/mcp_fm_nmc5_15_web.pdf

    I checked the data before I made the post.
  13. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    Charter boat captain charged in passenger death

    MIAMI


    A Florida charter boat captain has been charged in a death that occurred during one of his trips.

    A U.S. Department of Justice news release says 49-year-old Mauricio Alvarez was arrested last week at the Fort Lauderdale-Hollywood International Airport as he attempted to board an overseas flight. He was charged with misconduct or neglect of a ship officer that resulted in the death.

    Court records say Alvarez was operating a motor yacht called "Miami Vice" with seven passengers on April 1. Officials say the boat stopped in Biscayne Bay, between Miami and Miami Beach, and some of the passengers went swimming. The complaint says Alvarez engaged the engines at some point, and one of the swimmers was hit and killed by the propeller.

    The complaint also says Alvarez didn't have a U.S. captain's license.[/QUOTE]

    Let's see...

    swimmers from his boat, one of which was killed. There goes all the didn't know excuses and where did they come from.

    and

    about to leave the country.

    and

    not licensed.
  14. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    You re right... i didnt remember the options since i had been running my 53 for years
  15. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    It s still all speculation at this point all the previous reports say he was 20 years old... i m sure the past few days must have felt like years nut now he s 49?

    This was a bad design for day charters, or any charters, as there is no dir ct sight from the helm to the aft deck and to overhang to install cameras. This means there is no way for the captain to be sure no pax jumped back in the water... only way to handle this is to have a crew on the aft deck at all time.... not going to happen.

    On most larger boats you cant see the aft deck and platform but at least you can have cameras. We have three cams in the back and they are setup to show the platforms and stairs. Any guest opens a gate with engines runnning and we go to neutral until a crew gets them out of there.
  16. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    Reviving this old thread about crew handling lines on swimplatforms.

    In this case (just took the pic), it s a lousy design by Westport as the stern cleats are on the platform leaving no option but for that crew to be there... dangerous especially since she s out of view of the captain on the FB.

    Would have been much safer to have a set of cleat on each corner of the aft deck to allow safe line handling

    Attached Files:

  17. Capt Cole

    Capt Cole Member

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    It's been a couple of years since I renewed my 100GT. I think your explanation is correct concerning how the GT of vessels operated is calculated to determine what you qualify for. I can't recall the exact Sea Service requirement.

    Most of the boats I have run were in the 50' LOA range with a couple in the upper 60's. I am generally good with one crew member to assist with fenders and lines. With these smaller boats, it is fairly easy for me to direct all passengers to a safe area where they can be easily observed during departure and docking. We utilize wireless hands-free headsets for communication and safety is rule #1. Nobody is allowed on the swim step except to step on and off the vessel.

    I have personally witnessed 2 incidents where people fell from the swim step while the skipper was docking. In each case, the skipper did not realize someone was in the water and both guys were able to swim away from the boat before being backed over. Scary thing to witness the fall. I can only imagine the feeling if someone was injured or killed.
  18. CTdave

    CTdave Senior Member

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    Quick stories:
    I grew up on family boats, owned my first at 14, was a mate at 18, had my 100 Ton Masters at 21 and was running a private 127' yacht and other charter yachts out of Ft. Lauderdale in the mid 80's when I was 24. Luckily, no incidents aside of a few medical issues on board over the years. It's not all about age, it's about natural ability and experience. You can't teach dumb!

    Next, after running my 50 Hatteras with 12v183's swinging 34" 5 blade's from FL to CT a few years ago, we arrived at home port at night and one of two friends on board who had been on my boats since our teens, went over the back as I was backing down. EMERGENCY SHUT DOWN! Had I knot had one eye on my two guys first and the docks second, he would have been shredded in a second.
    Always watch your passengers first! I don't let anyone walk to the bow while underway and since my kids were walking, they weren't allowed in the cockpit while docking until they were old enough to understand not to lean against the gunnels and why. Decks get slippery and it's easy to go over. Nobody is allowed on the swim platform with engines running.
    Unfortunately, a young 15 or 16 year old girl on a boat at our marina (and our neighbor) was killed after a tragic tubing accident several years ago. The driver apparently lost track of the girl in the water and the consequences were deadly. It's opened the eyes of many and the foundation is bringing awareness to boat safety.