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part 2: Northern Marine 90' Yacht Capsizes Upon Launch...!

Discussion in 'Northern Marine Yacht' started by jaycee, May 29, 2014.

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  1. jaycee

    jaycee Guest

    Admin Edit: This thread is a continuation from the original thread, located here...

    http://www.yachtforums.com/forums/g...ern-marine-90-yacht-capsizes-upon-launch.html

    I would like to comment on the latest comment in the original thread, made by captain J. It said: "Have you seen pictures of most of the latest cruise ships out of the water? They make the N M look totally sea worthy, yet you never hear of a cruise ship rolling over.....There's a little more to seaworthiness than how the vessel looks out of the water......It all depends on the center of gravity and where all of the weight is located."

    That is true. however, it is also true that a higher ship has a higher vertical gravity point. So the chance of things going wrong is bigger. Also, we had 2 cruise ships collapsing the last years. If the Northern Marine would have had one less deck, things might have turned out different.....

    And in my opinion it is just very strange to build a trideck yacht of just 90". There is a very good reason that you hardly see any trideck 90" yachts around: stability.
  2. AMG

    AMG YF Moderator

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    A very good reason to start a new thread, you think the boat was top-heavy..?
  3. Norseman

    Norseman Senior Member

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    What is your honest opinion Lars, based on the pictures and previous information posted on this board?
    Too top heavy, or ballast and machinery will keep the boat sound and seaworthy?
  4. AMG

    AMG YF Moderator

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    There is already a thread with more than enough speculations and top heavy was what most people thought.

    Personally I think when you see a boat from the bow, what is above the water should fit in a quadrangle, but this is just aesthetics. Ballast can of course change anything to the better on displacement boats.
  5. Felipe

    Felipe Senior Member

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    We can all speculate on the reasons for capsizing, but you need a lot more information that will never be visible on the photos published to come up with an explanation. Is like trying to guess what someone had for lunch by looking at his/her face, not very productive.
  6. mapism

    mapism Senior Member

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    Well, I would think that just about anything can actually fit in a quadrangle...
    ...including aerials and even paravanes!:)
    Otoh, if as i guess you meant a square, while I agree that it's a nice rule of thumb, I can't think of many expedition boats that would comply.
    Surely none of the NM boats I've seen, but also Nordhavns, for instance...
  7. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    What about a 90' Sailboat with a giant sail up, they don't tip over. Look at how much wind force a 90' Schooner could capture and not roll over. Why because they have enough ballast below the waterline. If the Northern Marine has enough weight down low below the waterline, it could be perfectly stable.

    Quite honestly, I think it was a combination of small screwups.....I think the tires blew on one of the dollies, the Engine room flooded through the transom door prior to even rolling, the boat tilted, the water in the engine room shifted, and if the boat was totally floating it probably wouldn't have rolled, but the bow was supported poorly and the bow leaned over on the V and there was no way the hull could self right itself. This is just my opinion. Quite frankly, if the hull is ballasted properly, I think the boat would be very stable even with the high COG. They could build the superstructure fairly light if they're using a lot of coring.....
  8. Norseman

    Norseman Senior Member

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    Aye Capt J, a 90' sailboat has a heavy keel hanging some to 10 or more feet below the hull and the rightning moment at Force X Arm is immense.
    Some of the huge sailing yachts have equally huge drafts: The Maltese Falcon at 36 feet....They won't be cruising the Bahamas anytime soon.:D

    My sailboat on the Avatar picture has a 5 feet draft and tons of concrete embedded in the keel. Got knocked down In a microburst once and the boat was laying on it's side for a few seconds but the keel pulled it right side up immediately.
    (Good thing my wife was not aboard then, she would have killed my arse dead, then divorced me :D)
    No damage done, but the boat was designed by a proper Naval Architect and not by some guy with a computer.:cool:
  9. AMG

    AMG YF Moderator

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    I use quadrangle and rectangle to describe different shapes of a square, it may be wrong but you obviously got it anyway. And I mean the volume of the boat should fit, not protruding objects. Same as with shoes, I don´t expect all of me to fit in...:)

    And I think most of the expedition yachts are near these proportions seen from the front, but if they are under 100 feet, they are also short and look higher...
  10. nilo

    nilo Senior Member

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    4th deck on yachts under 110 feet

    When we were designing the Moonen Explorer 100, we decided not to have a higher deck, because we thought an explorer should be sea worthy and should be able to move swiftly in high seas. Whereas, the trend is to make yachts high and call them explorers. General public has the opinion that the higher the boat; like an SUV; the better it will be in the rough terrain. I think this is all wrong and if they do not capsize (again light displacement situations, where the large fuel tanks are empty, the boat may really have stability issues); they would still be very uncomfortable. In order to achieve some stability, the beam is set very wide, but this is also against the principal of having an efficient hull, especially when you have high aft seas.

    As a resume, ambition to satisfy false perceptions is all wrong and serious designers and yards somehow should try to educate inexperienced owners to the best of their capacity.
  11. Norseman

    Norseman Senior Member

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    Bingo Nilo.
    My thoughts exactly, but you said it better.....
  12. SeaEric

    SeaEric YF Historian

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    I read on another forum: Seems the boat will not float upright. CG tested it with all full tanks (water) and she went over 20 degrees before they stopped her from rolling over with the slings and crane.
    This apparently after she had been righted, re-floated and dewatered with the help of the crane and slings.
  13. Marmot

    Marmot Senior Member

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    Did they stick the daggerboard back on?

    http://www.yachtforums.com/forums/p...-navi-289-clipper-yacht-maltese-falcon-3.html

    If you look at the air draft vs water draft on MF, the top heavy argument kind of drifts downwind a bit. When you consider a 6 meter draft vs 58 meter air draft it shows that just because there is some height doesn't necessarily mean there is anything up there.

    Like Felipe's great statement should have made quite clear, looking at a photo of a boat and thinking the shallow draft means it is "top heavy" is like looking at someone's face and thinking you know what they ate for lunch. If it were that easy a lot of NAs and hydrodynamicists would be out of work.

    Edit: This just released: Google "Builder blames ramp in $10 million yacht capsize"

    "PRESS RELEASE
    NORTHERN MARINE
    90-ft Vessel Launch
    On Sunday, May 18, 2014, New World Yacht Builders LLC (DBA Northern Marine) suffered a major accident during the launch of its new 90’ expedition yacht, as the yacht capsized onto its port side during the launch and settled to the bottom of the launch area. Fortunately, the experienced master and crew responded to the peril professionally and all aboard escaped, with only two employees suffering minor cuts. There was no property damage to the surrounding launch area and potential environmental contamination was negated as a result of instant response to avoid possible fuel leakage, of which there was none.
    Since the casualty, there has been much speculation as to what happened, often with little or no supporting evidence. Northern Marine is cooperating with the United States Coast Guard in its investigation into incident.
    Northern Marine has launch more than 35 vessels, ranging from 57 to 151 foot motor yachts, with all of its trawler models having been launched using transport dollies at the same ramp where the accident occurred on the 18th. Northern Marine continues to have complete confidence in its trawler designs, all of which have been tank tested and passed the same United States Coast Guard (USCG) stability standards applied to commercial fishing vessels operating in the North Pacific. Northern Marine trawlers have safely sailed to destinations throughout world, such as the 75-foot Starship that successfully completed a 1000 day, 78,000 mile journey to explore parts the world rarely seen by mankind.
    Northern Marine believes the 90 foot yacht involved in the launch accident to be no exception. Since the accident, the project naval architect/Professional Engineer has confirmed that the yacht, as designed, had adequate stability with the amount of ballast aboard at the time of launch, provided that “severe heeling moments” were not induced during the launch. Unfortunately, it appears that just such a severe heeling moment did occur during the launch. While investigations as to the cause of the capsizing are continuing, the physical evidence on, and adjacent to, the launch ramp suggests that the dolly carrying the weight of the port stern of the yacht may have suddenly dropped off the edge of the boat ramp during the launch, causing the vessel to experience a sudden list to port from which it could not recover in its light condition for launch.
    As noted above, the official USCG investigation continues and Northern Marine will cooperate in those investigations to their conclusion. Northern Marine is also working closely with the yacht’s purchaser and their insurance underwriters to address the losses resulting from the accident.
    Northern Marine wishes to express its heartfelt appreciation for its many employees that contributed their talents to the construction of the yacht."
  14. Norseman

    Norseman Senior Member

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    Not sure about no daggerboard but the specs for the Maltese Falcon shows an 11 meter draft, or 36'1".

    Can't post a link right now, will come back stronger tomorrow if needed.


    The Perini Navi Group should have complete specs.
  15. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    So now we get the completely self serving press release. And Wes Fridell the only one speaking.

    And can someone provide a link to the release? I google and find links but follow them and the release isn't there. It's as if it's been pulled back. I went to King5, Three Sheets, United NW and a couple of others, found the headline on Three Sheets but not the release itself. Was it signed by anyone? Attributed to someone?

    And the word on the employees is indefinite as they had no other contracts and have to wait to see if more materialize. Makes me ask about the boats sitting on their yard.

    The true number of boats they've built comes out in the release for those thinking it was a much greater number. "More than 35 vessels", so probably 36 or 37. Sounds about right.
  16. Delfin

    Delfin Member

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    It might be an optical illusion, but once I measured it, Baden's height doesn't seem that much greater than her beam. Did I understand AMG and your point correctly? She is certainly taller than Delfin, but while we will have to see the USGC report for more information, Baden's behavior in the slings would suggest a serious ballast deficiency. That's probably enough speculation, but your point on the 'ideal square' for a trawler is very interesting. Thank you and AMG.

    Attached Files:

  17. OrthoKevin

    OrthoKevin Member

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  18. SeaEric

    SeaEric YF Historian

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    I did a search in boatinfoworld. There are 29 hulls documented with the USCG as built by Northern Marine, and 3 more as New World Yacht Builders. There are likely a few that are foreign flagged. So 36 or 37 is quite plausible.
  19. Old Phart

    Old Phart Senior Member

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    I dunno
    Well, finally an explanation of what I once herd about myself. :D

    Just curious regarding thoughts on the McGregor 26M.

    SPECIFICATIONS
  20. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    Designed to fill a niche, to get enough weight in a trailer sailer you would end up dragging a lot of dead weight around, the use of the water is smart and cheap.

    Not sure it would be a happy outcome if the transom valve were opened whilst giving it the gas on a broad reach though.

    Water Ballasted Sailboats are out there in a decent size too.

    Riptide 41