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Outer Reefer vs Grand Banks

Discussion in 'Outer Reef Yacht' started by jfrank, Jan 27, 2009.

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  1. jfrank

    jfrank New Member

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    Tell me about Outer Reef quality and seamanship compared to Grand Banks.
    I am comparing GB 72 SC to OR 73.
    Help....
  2. KCook

    KCook Senior Member

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    Welcome to YachtForums jfrank :)

    I'm curious about that as well. Can't be any help though, no trawlers here in the desert! I would suggest though, that you will get more replies posting questions like this up in the General Yachting Discussion forum than down here in the catacombs.

    Kelly
  3. ESYD

    ESYD Member Removed

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    I am willing to give you a slightly biased opinion. I am the designer of the Moloka'i Strait motoryachts, and one of the partners of Moloka'i Strait Marine is Jeff Druek, who is also the owner of Outer Reef Yachts. He also lives at the eastern end of Long Island.

    I am very impressed with the quality of Outer Reef Yachts. Mr. Druek had built two previous Grand Alaskans by Oviatt, one about 60-65', the other the first 75'er. He spent a lot of time travelling back and forth to Taiwan to oversee the construction of those boats. So he got his boatbuilding management skills from the school of hard knocks. Shortly after he bought the GA 75, he bought what ultimately became the Moloka'i Strait 75, Hercules, and simultaneously started Outer Reef Marine.

    Both Outer Reef and Moloka'i Strait are subsidiaries of American Global Yacht Group. Mr. Druek returned to the Grand Alaskan builders in Taiwan and had them develop the Outer Reef line. Mr. Druek's real skill comes in his business management and attention to detail, followed by owner follow-up service. I have been on just a few of the Outer Reefs, and they follow the quality that we have on the Moloka'i Strait line.

    As for the Grand Banks, the basic line is very old, and being around for a long time, they must be doing something right. I cannot speak with any personal experience on the 75, but you should be able to do a pretty close apples to apples comparison between the GB and the OR on your own. I expect that you will find very good features on the Outer Reef, and hopefully see as good features on the Grand Banks.

    I hope that helps.

    Eric
  4. OutMyWindow

    OutMyWindow Senior Member

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    I don't know, maybe have some of those Captains take an OR for a drive.
    http://www.yachtforums.com/forums/outer-reef-yacht/4232-review-outer-reef-73-pilothouse.html
  5. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    i have no experience with Outer Reefs but since they appear to be somewhat related to Grand Alaskans, i'll mention that having inspected 3 Grand Alaskans last year for a prospective buyer, i was not impressed at all.

    I realize that quality varies from one boat to the next and that these 2000/2003 vintage boats may not be representative of other years GA or the current OR line but when you see yards making gross mistakes, you got to worry...

    for instance, one boat had the shore power inlets on the face of the Poruguese bridge, and the back of the inlets exposed to an unsealed compartment in the back side of the PB. all corroded...

    another one had compartments on the transom closed by $0.35 plastic latches (no dogs, no seal). worst, these compartment were open at the top into the lazarette. Get an engine problem in rough water and this is a disaster waiting to happen.

    yet another one had a proper hatch on the aft deck to get into the lazarette but it could only be unlatched from the inside. So let say you hit something and rip a rudder, the only way in the lazarette is from the watertight door in the ER. problem is that if you need to get into the Laz. to plug the leak, you have to flood your ER...

    and many other stupid errors like that...

    again, this may not be representative of other Grand Alaskans or Outer Reefs, but dont' assume anything when it comes to far east yards: inspect inspect inspect.
  6. CaptTom

    CaptTom Senior Member

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    I've had the pleasure of sea trialing both the 65 and 80 OR. They run well, have exceptional craftmanship on the interior and are stylish long range cruisers. Had the 80 out in 5+ seas and with the stabilizers on, gave a gentle roll, no snapping, no loss of control.
    Before the 65 trial, the yacht was on land and the hull style showed a fine running surface.
    Here's a shot of the 65 stabilizer.

    Attached Files:

  7. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Hey Tom,
    Not meaning to knock and I don't have any experience on the OR, but 5' seas isn't much of a test for any boat over 40'. Does anybody out there have experience with them in serious seas?
  8. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    If you want a serious trawler skip both of them and get a Nordhaven 72, or a Northern Marine trawler.
  9. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Oh Yeah! :D
  10. YachtForums

    YachtForums Administrator

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    This thread was a comparison between OR & GB. Let's try to stay on subject.
  11. macka1706

    macka1706 New Member

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    hmm.
    Boats of that size and above. I'd be going Steel or aluminium over glass.
    There's too many hard floaties bouncing around out there.

    I hit a container 40 yrs ago off coast of Tassie.
    In anything other than my 6/8mm thick steel plating. I'd be with the fishes.
    It left a 8in by 2 ft dent in my plating a metre below the waterline
    Had nothing but steel yachts since.

    Plastic for smaller and Coastal.
    but anything offshore and in shipping lanes I'd be looking at Steel
    Heesen. Moonen etc..
    There are companies making a living fromrecovery of floating/sub surface
    shipping containers nowadays.
    They have ships set up solely for that.
  12. gcsi

    gcsi Member

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    I'm in the market for a full displacement 70-90 motoryacht. Have inspected quite a few types of boats over the last year and would like to share my opinion thus far.

    - The Asian boats look great, upon close inspection, not so great. Everything seems to be "adequate" for its intended use. Some common observations:
    ) Schedule 40 PVC fittings used below the waterline
    ) Areas that could require IMMEDIATE attention are very difficult to access (stuffing boxes, valves, seacocks, etc)
    ) poor quality fasteners, clamps, hardware, etc... Looks good, but...
    Everything looks great, however, I think of myself tossed around in heavy seas having to get at something NOW that's behind or under a very hot mechanical device or not reasonably accessible. Or walking across deck, loose footing and my 220lb carcass crashes into that Asian deck railing; the thought makes me cringe.

    At the other end of spectrum are the Dutch boats. True "little ships" with incredible redundancy of systems and best in class attention to detail. Every time I look at one of these it's difficult to make myself leave the engine room, they are that impressive.

    If you're going to be a coastal cruiser I think the Asians are fine. However, if you're going to venture forth, my advice would be to broaden your horizons a bit and look at some of the metal boats on the market, truly is apples and oranges.
  13. gcsi

    gcsi Member

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    Just saw that this was a 2009 thread. In the immortal words of Emily Litella "never mind"....
  14. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    Well, never mind, but I can't let your statements go unchallenged. You refer to "The Asian Boats." Which Asian boats, which country, which boat builder. A blanket statement like yours is absurd. There are hundreds of Asian boat builders of all quality levels. Similarly, "The Dutch Boats". While Dutch boats have a great reputation, there are many different yards of different quality and parts of some "Dutch Boats" are built elsewhere. Blanket statements are unfair to boat builders.

    So far off topic, both you and macka with his metal boat statements. The thread, although very old, was a comparison between Ocean Reef and Grand Banks. Both Fiberglass boats. Both Asian boats. So metal vs. glass and Asian vs. Dutch, are irrelevant anyway.
  15. gcsi

    gcsi Member

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    I am not going to publicly bash a specific boat, I would consider that to be poor form. Based on my personal inspection of boats on the market TODAY, I was suggesting that the OP broaden his horizons a bit so he could make a more informed purchasing decision. If you want details, PM your contact number and I'll give you a call and let you know specifically which boats I've inspected and why I hold my opinions.
  16. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    No, you bashed an entire continent of boats instead of a brand. You felt it was fine to publicly do that. I consider that poor form. And I definitely don't want details from you or a call from you. Just don't see how anyone benefits from such broad generalizations as those you made. And as to the OP, his question was very specific and it was 7+ years ago.

    If you classify all Asian boats the same, then you obviously are not well informed. Also, if you believe all Asian boats are fiberglass you're very mistaken.
  17. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    ALL of the Asian boats about sums it up. They all use the same components, usually Chinese or Taiwanese off brand copies of American ones. Items such as Sea Strainers, hinges, door latches and drawer latches. seacocks, hose clamps, etc. All of their stainless is usually NOT 316, but some lower spec'ed recycled stainless that is never as shiny/clean looking as good stainless and needs polishing frequently. I've been on Johnsons, Mckinna, Charles, Hampton, Offshore, Cheoy Lee, Marlow, OA, Hargrave, Jeffersons, Flemings, Grand Banks and ones you can't even pronounce. They all seemed to be laid up strong with great wood work. They all seem to share the same components on most everything. Almost all of them perform like a bath tub, cruise at maximum plow, and never get on plane with the exception of a Charles SF and a 65' Mckinna I ran that cruised at a wet 20 knots. They all seem to have way overly complicated fuel systems with 30 shut off valves when you really only need 9, and way overly complicated wiring that seems to run in endless circles in the engine room. All in all they are a budget boat and you get what you pay for.

    They share many of the same components, just like you see similarities on the US boats....for example you will see Rule float switches and bilge pumps on 90+% of the yachts under 100', and groco or perko sea strainers on all of them, and marine air or cruiseair on 95%, etc. etc. etc.
  18. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    I'd put Fleming against any boat. I'd put Ocean Reef high and Cheoy Lee as well as Horizon. I'd put several others at average. I don't rate all builders from the US or the UK or France or Italy great either but the best in each country are good and the worst are bad. As to your plow comment, a Cheoy Lee Alpha or Sport Yacht performs with any other boats their size.
  19. macka1706

    macka1706 New Member

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    Plus Nordhaven. Without the stabilisers or Flopper stoppers at anchor.
    will make you seasick without moving. Northern marine the same I would think
    Very top heavy. Like that other one that rolls them on launching.
    Look at the vessels on that transAtlantic fleet a few yrs back

    Moonen.Heesen. Bering. Van Lent. and other PROVEN quality
    Dutch and others in steel are true ocean voyagers.

    There are a few proven Plastic vessels too. in large and smaller ranges.
    but there's no way I'd spend money on a 130ft plastic boat.

    90% of large pleasure and commercial are built of Steel or aluminium for a reason.
    Safety. with proper scantlings drawn up and Longevity.
    LLoyds 100A1 is such.
    100 YEARS... is the life expectancy of a properly maintained /Built to class
    Steel hull.
    My last yacht. was built in Australian shipyard of marine grade steel
    by two shipyard boilermakers in spare time. launched in early '85..

    I had her for near 30 yrs.
    Grit blasted the hull to waterline every 8 yrs. epoxied completely inside from new.
    with lead ballast and oil bases paint poured in between lead contraction and steel plating in keel box.
    She was. Last yr on latest blasting. AS NEW plating still.with 0% corrosion.
    Internally or externally.

    How many plastic boats of that vintagehave you seen,
    not had to have an epoxy coating after a total strip back below waterline.

    Gell lets water INTO the glass.
    Only SOME of the later models have waterproof outer layers of epoxy in mould

    Plus.you see two vessels in a seaway. one of each.

    The steel hull is NORMALLy a much better riding hull in 30 knots and above.
    Plastic tends to bounce over the top.

    You don't see too many plastic trawlers. (I was a deckie on North Sea fleet in mid '50's).
    We rolled and bounced.
    but 98% of us always came back. I've watched the few smaller (70ish ft) plastic boats dragging nets with us
    and always thought. I'm glad I'm not on that bouncy, rolling thing.
    even with the boards down they bounced.
    We ALL rolled in those seas in Winter.
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2016
  20. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    I think you re a littel harsh and over generalizing, for instance the Johnson 70 I ran for 8 years woudl pop on plane in seconds, cruised at 21/22kts on 65% load and topped just shy of 30kts. Not a plowing tub... Systems were farily simple and reliable, in 8 years and 3000 hours (boat was 5 year old with 2000 hrs when I got on) we never had to cancel a trip due to mechanical issues. Not one.

    After 13 years in the fl sun the gelcoat still has a shine and there are very few stress cracks. It's not a hatteras but a good value.

    Yes, I know... I didn't counter your point about the stainless... It bleeds :)

    So, you can't paint one group of builder with the same paint brush... Especially if you don't consider price .