? OUPV (six pack) License limits ??

When you studied the CFRs to prepare for taking the test to obtain your license did you seen any reference to the length of boat you could operate?

If you are hired to operate this boat and the owner receives any form of compensaton from the people who ride on it, what is the common nickame for an OUPV license?

Is there some reason you don't want to call the local USCG marine safety office and ask them?

Someone would hire a 6 packer to run his 50 with guests? Are you sure you even want to run for a guy who would do that? If you were qualified to run that boat you would have tonnage. Obviously he's looking to get someone cheap. Such a person will certainly hold you responsible for any damage or injuries to the passengers whether you cause it or not. Think long and hard before you do this.

Can you explain that further. I've always considered a OUPV one step above launch operator and one step below 25GT. How do you mean this statement? It sounds like you're saying it's equal to a 100GT.

I would think an insurer will consider it as having no captain at all.

Good grief ... NYCAP, do you know what the U in OUPV stands for? And do you know what the difference between an Operator and a Master is in
CG speak? Don't you know what it means to have a COI and how that relates to the number of passengers carried? How many issues of that ticket did you say you have?

5 and yes I do, but do you think the OP does or many of the other readers of this thread? In your reply to the OP you managed to belittle him rather than simply answer his question. Do you think anyone with a OUPV knows anything about the CFRs other than what they need to get the ticket or just enough to get themselves into trouble. Obviously this is not his career. He's a guy looking to draw on our experience to help keep him out of trouble while he dabbles in his dream. Maybe in 20 years he'll know what I know, but I doubt he'll know what you know unless you help him.

So how come with 5 renewals you unashamedly stated in writing on a public forum that you didn't have a clue what the difference between an OUPV and a Master is?

I hope it doesn't take him that long to understand what Pascal just explained so clearly. And please, I've got the same deck license as you do but figure knowing the privileges and limitations associated with it is part of the responsibility that comes with holding it. Expecting that much from others is not unreasonable.

Thank you for that Pascal. Of course it makes perfect sense, but I had never heard tonnage associated with a 6 pack since it's usually just a guy doing fishing charters on his own boat. Then again, I never spent much time looking into tonnage limits for 6 packs. Now I'm stuck with an image of someone telling his insurance company he's going to buy a 90 footer and do charters with his OUPV. I can see it happening. Seems like a big, dangerous loophole.

Some of us spend our lives with our noses in books, some spend it running boats having enough knowledge to safely make our living ON the water for 20+ years and knowing where to find what may come up once in a blue moon. Some of us just aren't smart enough to keep chapter and verse of every regulation and statistic, etc., that may never be relevant to them, locked in our heads. Sorry.
And what exactly do I need to know about an OUPV other than that he can't be master of an inspected passenger vessel, nor carry more than 6 passengers for hire and that I would never hire one?
Nobody is required to live up to your standards nor mine unless they work for or under us. We don't make nor enforce the rules. We are the ones with the obligation (and it's only a moral one) to help others get more educated.

I just find it amazing that someone could work in an industry for 25 years and not know or be interested enough in its history, regulations and processes to have not looked up such a fundamental at some point. Having an intimate knowledge of the limitations and privileges of the license one holds is the only way to make the most of the work that went into obtaining it. It isn't just some dillitante exercise, it's what professionals do. They know how the system within which they make a living works and what boundaries define their own limitations.

The argument that knowing how the system works is exclusive of knowing how to make a living in that system is rustic nonsense. I haven't posted, nor have I read, any chapter or verse in this thread, all I have read is Pascal explaining what you admitted to having missed in the process of 5 renewals and an OUPV holder who didn't know he didn't know.

You might not like the idea that I would challenge someone to find the answer in resources he has a responsibility to know how to use rather than just regurgitate the chapter and verse, but the only way to learn that stuff is to know the regulations the CG will use to hang you when you get it wrong. The fact that even the CG doesn't get it right means you had **** well know what you are doing and be able to defend your actions. The best defence of your license and your income is to know what you can and cannot do. If you think that is too lofty a standard then all I can ask is that you not promote that standard to others.

I bet there are a couple of ATPs reading this who will tell you that they saved their butt once or twice because they had a very intimate working knowledge of the minutia of the regulations concerning how they operate in the ATC environment, particularly in IMC.

What relevance to my life is the knowledge that a license I have no dealings with has a tonnage limit that will doubtfully ever be utilized. I'll leave that to the insurance guys, the people with that license and those charged with enforcing the regs. To me it's an interesting piece of trivia which I thanked Pascal for passing on. It's now filed with the rest of the useless (to my life) trivia that comes popping out while watching Jeopardy and amuses my wife. As to the rest of what you say here I'll learn the details of what I need to know to protect myself when I find I need protecting. Beyond that I just need to know what I can and can't do and how to do what I do well; not what regulation says it or how it's worded. All I really need to know in that regard is the number of a very good lawyer. He'll keep things rolling while I come up to speed on what I need, should the need arise.

"There are none so blind ..."

Call me a hopeless romantic or something worse but I just can't understand how anyone could spend a quarter of a century doing a job they don't care enough about that they wouldn't want to learn every little detail and aspect of it and those who share it.

That's not true. I managed a 63' Ocean SF where the owner ran it himself, and all over. The boat had been to the Panama Canal and back. The insurance company had no problems covering the owner who only had a 6 pack because he kept trading up 10' at a time and had been a boater for decades. I also once knew a Captain that ran a 65' MY for an owner and his 58SF with only a 6 pack back around 2000, but he had decades of experience also. So a lot of times experience will supercede licensing.

But this poster has neither a 100 ton or the proper experience to run a 50'.

Sea Square wrote that he "normally operated" a 30 footer. That doesn't mean he hasn't had 25 years of operating much larger vessels. He might have driven 100 foot inland tugboats until a few years ago. His question was only about the legality of the number of guests in respect to the license he currently holds.

He can speak in his own defense but it is a bit presumptuous to claim he lacks certain boat handling skills or experience just because he doesn't know how he stands with regard to his license. After all, there are masters on here with 25 years of experience who don't know the difference between the manning requirements of inspected and uninspected vessels.

Sorry I don't live up to your ideal, but somehow the way I've handled my life and my profession has worked very well for me and the people and vessels I've taken care of. In fact on occasion I've even been able to impress the only person that it matters to me that I impress.

Yes. You'll now be held to a professional standard. Don't make mistakes.