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Ocean Yachts should follow Bertram

Discussion in 'Ocean Yacht' started by NEO56, Sep 27, 2014.

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  1. NEO56

    NEO56 Member

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    All of this talk about Bertram, got me to thinking about Ocean's, many,many years ago they got a bad rap, and deservedly so. They always provided a lot of bang for the buck, and based on what I'd heard from owners, and press, permanently put a bad taste in my mouth. The last time I went to the FLIBS was about 5 or 6 years ago, and they had all of the SF's at the South end of the show. Somehow I ended up at the Ocean display, and I'm sure a well intended Ocean guy walked up to me, and invited me aboard their newest Flagship. I hemmed and hawed, and tried my best to be polite, but he was very insistent about me "just take a look, I think you'll be very impressed" speech. Finally, I'd had enough, the bow was facing west and the Sun was in perfect position, so I lead him over to the port side and said "Look, what do you see?" "A beautiful hull" was his reply. I then pointed out the you could see print through of the roving through the Gel coat. "Oh yeah, now I see it." Prior to walking away, I told him if Ocean doesn't even know how to lay up a hull...what makes you think I want to see the rest of the boat.

    To this day, I still don't understand how Ocean stays in business. I guess P.T. Barnum was right...there's a sucker born every minute.
  2. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    3 or 4 years ago there was a late model 60ish ocean in the slip next to us. Whenever the rub rail would touch the piling the boat would make an awful creaking sound.

    Not a sound that would inspire confidence even though I m sure the boats are strong enough
  3. RT46

    RT46 Senior Member

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    I considered an Ocean at one time, but couldn't commit.

    There is an awful lot of boat for the money and there are some great Ocean values out there.
  4. RER

    RER Senior Member

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    You answered your own question in the second sentence of your post. "They always provided a lot of bang for the buck..."

    There are more McDonalds and Burger Kings than there are Ruth's Chris Steakhouses. Do you think there are more Bayliners than any other boat out there because they are better boats?

    BTW, the title you chose for this thread is absurd.
  5. NEO56

    NEO56 Member

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    Sorry RER, I got beat up and I'm sure part of my Brain got scrambled yesterday at the Porsche World Roadshow at MSR in Angleton, TX. I was fine driving six different cars at an average speed of 80-90 mph..it was the hot lap in the Carrera Turbo to finish the day decelerating from 145 to 70 in two seconds to make the right hairpin turn, pretty much did it for me. After getting out of the car my ribs felt like I had gone two rounds with Mike Tyson. So...if you have a better title to the thread...I"m wide open!
  6. SomeTexan

    SomeTexan Member

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    MSR off of 59, southwest of Houston? Fun track if they fixed the seams.
  7. captholli

    captholli Senior Member

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    Ocean should follow Bertram??
    Quite the statement to say the least! The Leek family has filled a niche in the sport fish market for a long time and do so at a reasonable price point with sound engineering practices. During the eighties the companies lay up schedule was a bit on the thin side but these boats were famous for running like scalded dogs in anything but a stiff head sea. We used to refer to Oceans as "Plastic Fantastic's" usually as they passed us screaming out to Hudson Canyon. Ocean recognized their lay up problems and subsequent stress cracking in certain areas and in the late nineties started using corecell with a more aggressive layup to take care of the short comings. I was a partner in a 2005 50' super sport that we purchased in 2009 it had series 60's in it and 3 S/R and it was a fantastic boat for 495 thousand. I took it to the Ocean factory to have their team refresh the soft goods and lay some Amtico flooring etc and they were a pleasure to do business with as the economy dictated they take what work that came their way. As far as mat "Print through" is concerned, your dealing with a boat that's first layer in the mold is gel coat and roving / mat second. Print through has everything to do with what type and weight of glass matt is first in the lay up schedule and I've looked at some Riva's, lazzara's, and a few other highly respected builders that have had print through problems especially when they start using darker colors of gel coat so print through certainly isn't a trait wholly owned by Ocean.

    Ocean Yachts has teamed up with Mike French of Applied Concepts in stuart , Fl. to design the totally new from the keel up Ocean Yachts 64' Makaria with a vacuum infused and fully cored (Corecell) hull. One or two of these vessels have been on the East Coast tournament schedule and great things are being said as to the sea keeping ability of the new hull design and interior accommodations and these vessels will be on display @ FLIBS so maybe its a bit premature to wish the demise of a U.S. builder that employs American workers and utilizes American suppliers as the industry needs as many builders as possible to offer the best possible options for boaters.
  8. NEO56

    NEO56 Member

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    Hi SomeTexan, actually it's off of 288, you hang a left on C.R. 48 and it's right there. They still have a couple of seam issues and a couple of small potholes, they are out of the line of the track, and yes it's a very nice, but short course. I live about 35 miles from there, in Richmond. Next year go visit your Porsche dealer and get an invite...tons of fun! I drove the Boxter GTS, Cayman GTS, 911 4s, Panamera GTS, and the new Macan Turbo, all in Sport mode. You can go to porscheworldwideroadshowusa.com, to check them out. They have three more stops on this tour, I think, two in California and one in Washington State.
  9. NEO56

    NEO56 Member

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    Thanks Captholli, I stand corrected.
  10. SomeTexan

    SomeTexan Member

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    Sounds about right, I've only been there twice, and that was a few years back. I used to work with RideSmart, a trackday school for motorcycles, and worked with both MSR and Eagles canyon about safety/layout issues. Not that MSR paid any attention... I do live 15 min from their Cresson track and probably have 100k miles on the 1.7 mile course. I'll have to look into the Porsche demo thing, sounds like it could be fun. Of course, Ducati and Aprillia blacklisted me, maybe I can add Porsche to the list. Lmao.
  11. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    I have not been on any of the Ocean new builds say since mid 2000s. I will say that the Oceans could be comparable to Bayliners; A lot of bang for the buck and that is not a bad statement. I still do visit some older SF and MY Oceans, Nice but not great. I would not be scared to own one but not prefered based on upto early/mid 2000 models and knowing of other better builds.
    The other statement of a US company still working, Yes, I do agree and wish Ocean well. It would truly be sad if they had problems and slowed down or closed. They do deserve a lot of credit for surviving and continuing to deliver their products.

    And yes, the threads title sux.
  12. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    I too tend to agree with this and maintained one since I was 18 until 2009. Yeah they were built light but we never even had gelcoat cracking issues. If you lifted her with slings and no blocks under the rub rail, she would crack all of the varnish on the toe rail because the gunnels would flex in about 9". The owner of this 63' took it all through Central America and the Carribbean as well as his brother who had another 63' with a tower.

    Ocean did a really good job on interior and flybridge layout. They also all pretty much cruised at 30 knots......and were the fastest production boat in their day.....everyone else played catchup......Problem is they didn't update their line fast enough......I swear in the 90's every other SF you saw at the marina was an Ocean......
  13. Belle

    Belle Member

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    Confused....

    He says Ocean should follow Bertram...where? I didn't think we knew where they were going.

    Or does he mean they should move to Italy?

    Or does he mean they should sell to Ferretti?

    Or does he mean they should buy a building many many times what they need?

    Or maybe he means they should move into Bertram's building in Merritt Island?

    Or maybe he's listened to too many sports talk radio shows and just tosses out crazy statements for reactions?

    Well, he got attention.....could that be the answer?

    Time for dinner...bye bye.
  14. Yachtjocky

    Yachtjocky Senior Member

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    Flexible Flyers

    Well known as Flexible Flyers but in 24 years of working on all kinds of sport fisherman only ever saw one Ocean with a cracked stringer and that was after a very hard grounding.

    Remember hearing from various brokers at the shows that if they could get the wife's onboard an Ocean they could sell them.

    I also remember working on an Ocean with big MAN's and a Kevlar hull that did about 40 knots, yes a lot of creaks and grown's but she ran well.
  15. Yachtjocky

    Yachtjocky Senior Member

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    Dinner

    8.58pm going for dinner is a bit late, no ? Lol
  16. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    Was this particular boat you're talking about origionally named "Off Pump" and was a 53' with 10 cylinder Man's stuffed into it, 1990's vintage? If so my buddy ran it when it was new, it cruised around 37 knots then, I rode on it once and he asked me to check the engine room and the engines had tweaked the stringers so much at cruise, they were sharing the aisle together and now about 4" apart......when you slowed down they went back to where they were supposed to be.......it never did come apart or anything.....the good old days......

    Kevlar transmits lots and lots of noise. The 65' Monterey built out of Kevlar sounded like someone was shooting bird shot at the hull at cruise. Everyone that ever rode on it thought the whole boat was disintegrating.
  17. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    It's never too late for dinner......not everyone on the forum is sitting in Fort Lauderdale ya know.......
  18. NEO56

    NEO56 Member

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    Olderboater, shame on you for using your wife's login.:p Bertram will go the way of the Dinosaur. No matter what or who tries to revitalize the name...it will be in vain (didn't mean to rhyme). I don't listen to sports radio, so I have no idea of what you speak. Capt J has explained to the contrary that they are in fact trying to resolve their past problems, and in a nod to the free enterprise system, I hope they succeed in turning the company around. That would be my wish. I know the Leek's have been in business for a very long time, and I wish them well. I was just curious as to how they were staying in business these days. I don't see them advertising at all, YF doesn't have a category for Ocean postings, haven't seen any reviews in any boating magazines, singing their praises. They've kinda gone off the grid so to speak. Unless they have some kind of underground following I don't know about...my question still remains valid.
  19. NEO56

    NEO56 Member

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    I'm going to relay a story I heard from not one...but several sources back in the day. An owner of a 55/60 maybe a 66 bought a new Ocean and put big power plants into her. On her maiden voyage to Bimini from Miami, she fell off the backside of 6-8 footer at cruise speed, and landed in the trough. When she hit bottom both engines fell out of the bottom of the boat, and she sunk in less than 5 minutes. I wasn't there...I don't know any of the principals involved. But after hearing all the stories, I ask around and the people who knew of the incident, confirmed it. I'm sure that it could be a lot of docktalk, but considering what their problems were back then, it was entirely plausible.
  20. Belle

    Belle Member

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    Wrong wrong wrong. What he would have said wouldn't have been humorous like mine, but he's sworn off responding to you. Sort of like milk where he's lactose intolerant...hehe. Upsets my man's tummy.

    Besides I thought I was nice to respond like I did. I wasn't ****** saying it sux. Nor did I show my Rer and say it was absurd.

    Oh and for whoever said late for dinner, we're like in Washington at the moment on the far wrong coast. And just finished dinner. Dessert to come. Oh crap must watch my spelling. Almost messed up. Tuesday we say bye bye to the Evergreen state and head south. I think I'm a Cali kind of girl but more LA than SF. Well, we'll get there in time.

    Bye bye to the PNW. It's been nice while it lasted. I could say it's been freaking swell cause the swells are big here.

    Hot tub time.