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Nordhavn vs Mochi Craft LRC

Discussion in 'General Trawler Discussion' started by vwDavid, Apr 24, 2014.

  1. vwDavid

    vwDavid New Member

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    To Nordhavn officianados, dreamers, and owners,

    What are your thoughts on the Mochi Craft LRC 75 vs, say the N68 or N76?

    The Mochi hull looks interesting. Lots of details available about Nordhavns, not so much on this LRC.
  2. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    I wouldn't even compare the two. The build quality of the Mochi Craft isn't even close to Nordhavn....but I'd prefer Northern Marine over both, but compare them directly with Nordhavn.
  3. YachtForums

    YachtForums Administrator

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  4. Kafue

    Kafue Senior Member

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    The Mochi LRC has all the style, looks beautiful, yet no davit, no tender and I would delete the "picture" window in the master. Installing one may be no issue, but you would lose much of the amenities on the foredeck which makes the Mochi standout from the others.
    When the time comes again for my wife and I to look at a bigger boat I would lean toward a 62 Nordhavn if I can convince her to crew for me on a South Pacific Voyage, at the moment she would sooner meet me at the destination.
  5. HTMO9

    HTMO9 Senior Member

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    Mochi 75 LR

    My son and I did an extensive sea trial on the Mochi 75LR a few years ago. We were both fascinated by the hybrid power train and the predicted performance data.

    Once you get along with the unusual exterior design and entering the boat, you will find a beautifull designed high quality interior with exquisite materials and an interesting but practical interior layout. The interior was love on first site for us.

    We saw both the 3 cabin and 4 cabin layout with and without the optional captains cabin behind the wheelhouse. We found the 3 cabin layout as an owner operated boat without crew cabins for 4 adults and 2 kids, the most practicable one. The "crew cabin" and the captains cabin, we concidered, sorry to say, beneath human dignity, btw very common for Italian yachts of this size.

    I would have taken the removable forward sun bed area completely away and locate a strong hydraulic davit on the foredeck with the support pole below deck in front of the crash bulkhead. The foredeck could easily host two nice tender. The sun beds are useless during bluewater cruising anyhow, as this area is very wet, when the 75LR hits the waves. There is enough sun bathing area on the aft upper deck and the flybridge.

    I especially did like the open galley with the adjacent dinette and the salon dining table.

    Below some pictures from our visit

    Attached Files:

  6. HTMO9

    HTMO9 Senior Member

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    Mochi 75 LR

    From the technical point of view, the 75LR is a very interesting but complex design. The hull wants to combine the full displacement hull world with the planning hull world. As with all compromises, you will not get 100 % of both worlds.

    As you can see in the drawing, the original setup was with 4 (!!!!) stabilizers and two ARC gyros. Most likely not without reason. I do not remember whether the stabis were used for pitch control also. When the stabis started working hard during cruise, the fuel economy went down remarkably. When in semi planning mode, you could virtually see the fuel counter moving :D. In order to achieve a good range, you had to stay below 10 Kts.

    The hybrid power train was fascinating. It worked perfectly in all modes. Because of the limited (very expensive) battery capacity, the full E-mode was only usable for leaving and entering the harbour. But the trolling mode with the E-motors powered by the generators was nice and quiet.

    The hybrid system developed and provided by ZF is a very complex and somehow delicate equipment. It needs a good mechanic and perfect maintenance. The average weekend boater might be overtasked with this system. The ARC gyros are noisy, especially when the boat is on the hook. One big Seakeeper gyro would have done much better. But as far as I know, Ferretti is contractual bounded to the ARC system.

    The 75 LR is not a passagemaker or circumnavigator. It is a beautifull coastal cruiser for warm climates with the ability to support 6 to 8 people offshore for 10 to 14 days but with its 7800 Liters of fuel unable to do that under permanent cruise. A very nice vacation tool and probably great for charter if you can find a crew which is willing to live in this "rabbit stables".

    It is not possible to compare the 75LR with a Nordhavn 68 or even a 76. It would be comparing apples with oranges. A Nordhavn is heavy iron in comparison with a Mochi 75LR.

    Honestly, I would have bought the boat without hesitation but my son and his wife could not adopt the radical external design and the marginal planning performance.

    Below some more technical pictures. If any member wants to see more details, I can post GB of pictures if wanted.

    Attached Files:

  7. HTMO9

    HTMO9 Senior Member

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    Mochi 75LR

    Some pictures inside and outside.

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  8. HTMO9

    HTMO9 Senior Member

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    Mochi 75LR

    Last set

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  9. HTMO9

    HTMO9 Senior Member

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    Mochi 75LR

    Found an example of the 2010 pricelist in Euro, I believe, without VAT. To be correct for 2014, you most likely have to add some 15 %.

    Btw. the Mochi 75LR is called 23 Long Range in Europe (metric length). And long range means 1300 NM (no reserve) at max 9 Kts. At 16 Kts less than 500 NM.

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  10. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    That's where it's really not comparable to Nordhavn, very different type boats even if both talk about long range. When I hear long range I think 3,000 nm, but a lot of European builders think far less. Still I think it's a beautiful boat, just a beautiful boat with 1000 nm range.
  11. HTMO9

    HTMO9 Senior Member

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    75LR versus Nordhavn

    They cannot be compared. The Mochi 75 LR and a Nordhavn of comparable length play in a different league. the NH 68 and the NH76 are true pasagemakers and far more sturdy boats with much more volume / weight and not really owner operated boats anymore. The biggest Nordhavn operated by an owner couple would be a NH 52 or a NH 60 max. For crossing any kind of bigger area of salty water with a boat of that size, I would rather take a Nordhavn than a Mochi. For idling around in the Med or the Caribbean Sea, the Mochi 75 LR could be my choice.

    Below a beautiful NH 68 and a NH 76, some real boats. But I must admit, compared to the average Italian plastic fantastic, the Mochi 75 LR carries her head pretty high.

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  12. Kafue

    Kafue Senior Member

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    This is the NH 62 I am relating to.
    I believe an experienced couple with a lot of ocean miles experience would be quite comfortable taking this boat across an ocean. As with all voyages, it would take careful planning, and a 3rd or 4th crewman would be more comfortable, but still not compulsory.

    Attached Files:

  13. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    I would say that boat can be handled by two but I would never recommend an ocean crossing with only two. First, the sheer number of hours working would be exhausting. Second, what if one of the two got ill or injured.
  14. Kafue

    Kafue Senior Member

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    Agreed, but it is done quite often in lesser vessels. Adding a 3rd person would make a hard work an adventure.
  15. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    Often done with only two, but I wouldn't agree that it's wise. We all sometimes do things not necessarily good ideas.
  16. HTMO9

    HTMO9 Senior Member

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    Minimum crew requirements

    For sure, you can ferry even a 80 ft boat both sail and power with a crew of two, as proven by sailors, even single handed, across an ocean or as done before, non stop around the globe.

    The giant 4 mast sailing yacht Phocea (247 ft LOA) was build as Club Mediterranée for single handed Atlantic Crossing :eek:.

    But ferrying a boat with a small crew or operate it permanently, lets say by an retired owner couple, is a totally different story. For this type of operation, I would really place the upper limit at around 60 ft LOA. With a perfectly automated and well handling boat and VERY capable "crew" you may be able to push this limit to 65 ft.

    A 76 ft Nordhavn is a 100 ton coloss. During fine weather and calm sea, the crew of two might be happy with the workload. But during an ocean crossing, in heavy weather and high seas, when things go down the drain, the performance and capability of an individual may be dramatically reduced within hours. The extra hand or two might then be helpfull.

    During the late fifties and early sixties, our 260 ft costal cargo vessels (German: Kümo) were manned with a crew of three. The Skipper with additional engine room qualification and two deckhands with some "multi tasking capability" :cool:. It was legal and it worked but the ships were suffering. The bends and scratches and the overall appearence of the ships could tell, that those ships were operated by minimum crew. The lack of maintenance had to be counteracted by shorter dock intervalls. My father finally raised the crew to 5, later 6 and was able to extend the dock intervalls to every second year.

    Will say, even without any accident, just by looking at a boat, you will often be able to tell, if it is undercrewed or the crew is overtasked.
  17. Iluvyachts

    Iluvyachts Member

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    They have video interviews of Nordhavn owners running a 76 and 72 as a couple. The 76 was their first boat also.
  18. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    But they don't interview the couple who even as part of a flotilla, put the boat on the market for sale as soon as they made land. It also is sometimes overlooked how many of the boats in the flotilla made use of either the Engineer Nordhavn brought along or the medical team.

    Yes, two can do it. Can two enjoy it? Well their time together will be somewhat limited since they'll have to sleep different hours. Plus crisis arising, maintenance required. And this is really with everything going well. It's when things don't go that well, that two becomes a less than optimum number.

    But off of the ocean crossing and whether it can or not. There are not many couples who choose to operate a 70+' boat with just the two of them. It's not just taking the helm, in fact that's a small part of it. It's all the systems aboard too. Docking or anchoring. Everything involved. The purpose isn't to prove what they can do, it's to enjoy doing it. When the work starts to exceed the pleasure then that's not enjoyable.
  19. Kafue

    Kafue Senior Member

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    I would prefer a crew of one engineer and a good deckhand plus, however, when the plan goes awry, numbers of crew do not make up for cool minds.
    Too many examples of full crew and the failure of the leader makes the mistakes magnify in ever diminishing cycles.
    There is a sad story of a couple losing their lives on a NH 62 or 64 in Mexico while crewing for a qualified Captain. One of the lost was a Captain.
  20. Iluvyachts

    Iluvyachts Member

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    My point was to prove what you can do. A lot of people on this forum always comment on the size limits of the owner operator. I believe it depends on the individuals and the boat involved.