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| Nobiskrug | 142.1M | S/Y "A" | 2015/17 |

Discussion in 'Nobiskrug Yacht' started by German Yachting, Sep 1, 2015.

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  1. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    I do under the pecking order.
    It's just defining a rag boat from a power boat.
    There is no descriptor in the rule book for a power boat that hangs sails so it would look cool.
    It would still be a power boat. As s/v A.
  2. Yacht News

    Yacht News YF News Editor

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    When she was in Puerto Rico.

  3. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    Did anybody notice?
    1) Only one anchor, Port side way back from the stem.
    2) As I commented on long ago, exhaust soot on the last mast.
    Wonder what the sail and equipment looks like back there when deployed.

    Still a power boat that hoist rags sometimes.
  4. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    I have been aboard, it has two anchors.
  5. Yacht News

    Yacht News YF News Editor

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    The other anchor must be a submarine anchor similar to how some sailing yachts have theirs arranged.
  6. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    The anchor on the port side does show some use.
    A submarine anchor must be located a ways back from the stem also.
    More interesting (strange) designs onboard.
  7. Gage Rowden7

    Gage Rowden7 Senior Member

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    I'm jealous haha. You are very lucky!
  8. Yacht News

    Yacht News YF News Editor

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    It's been talked about that she can land a helicopter but I have not seen it happen until now. A shame the video was taken from so far.

  9. Yacht News

    Yacht News YF News Editor

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    @German Yachting your thoughts?
  10. HTMO9

    HTMO9 Senior Member

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    A good helicopter pilot (not me :)) can land almost anywhere. But this does not mean, this boat has a certified or even a prepared landing spot.

    SYA.jpg
    If You look at this screenshot from a Youtube video previously shown here on YF, the spot where the small helo has landed (most like a Bell 207/407 or similar), can not be certified, not even as a touch and go spot. Even with the sea fence removed, the fixed bulkwark is far to high, even in the very front, the spot has no markings and with the neccessary distance for the rotor to the radar mast, there is no D-value provided for anything bigger than a RC helicopter.

    This does not mean a landing is impossible or dangerous but for SY "A" being a SOLAS ship, just not really legal. But owners from this area live in their own world and make their own rules :rolleyes:. As long as their are no crashes with fatal outcome, nobody cares. No plaintiff, no judge.

    Just my 2 (Euro) cents
    Kevin likes this.
  11. German Yachting

    German Yachting Senior Member

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    Getting a little close to the front mast. Luckily there doesn't appear to be any cables around there. That's what caused the Octopus crash in Argentina.
  12. HTMO9

    HTMO9 Senior Member

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    If I understand correctly, SY "A" flies the Bermuda flag (one of the red ensign comenwealth flags) and is therefore certified under the MCA LYC / LY III or large Passenger Yacht Code. And because of size it is a full SOLAS yacht.

    As on non commercial yachts any privately owned and operated helicopter can be landed on any suitable deck space (this excludes charter operation of the yacht and chartered commercial helicopters and not mentioning any insurance aspects) but on yachts cerftified as mentioned in the first paragraph, there has to be a certified helicopter landing pad with specific characteristics and safety measurements on the ship plus appropiate crew training.

    Just a few examples of this characteristics: The D-Value (certified max. rotor diameter) marks the maxium size of the landing helicopters rotor diameter (mostly 10 to 11 meter for light twin helos) whereas the weight class in tons shows the max. allowable landing weight (means the neccessary strength of the deck, 3 to 4 tons for light twins).

    The D-Value has the purpose of providing full deck area under the rotor disk during T/O and landing, in order to avoid problems with in and out of ground effect control problems for the operator, safe embarking and disembarking of passengers and safe pre-, through- and post-flight inspections of the helicopter. The outside of the D-value ring has to be 1.25 times the distance between the main rotor axis and the tail rotor axis from its center.

    As I understand this figure, the first obstacle outside this radius has to be 1.25 the above distance of the cleared helicopter for this landing pad. Means, the D-Value ring has to be this minimum distance away from the first higher obstacle (i.e. radar mast). If you place this distance onto the foredeck of SY "A", the possible D-value ring has to be pretty small in order to be completely painted on the foredeck.

    Example: With a distance of 10 meters from the main rotor axis to the tail rotor axis, a 10,8 meter D-value ring has to 12.5 Meter away from the nearest obstacle (measured from the center).

    Second, the landing pad is not allowed to have any permanent structure on its outside in which the skid gear or any other part of the helicopter can get caught during T/O and landing. The solid bulkwark of SY "A" IMHO qualifies as such an obstacle.

    Correct me if I am wrong but in my humble opinion, any type of helicopter operation on and off SY "A" can therefore not be legal, especially with this little commercial charter helicopter, shown on the video. But as mentioned above, no plaintiff, no judge.
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2019
  13. Hohum

    Hohum Senior Member

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    I am sure I read somewhere that SYA is PYC compliant, but she certainly isn't for helicopter operations. Its the PYC helicopter requirements that have driven the design of a lot of the yachts we have seen recently - notably the Crescent/Flying Fox/Lightning/Opus series from Lurssen.
  14. AMG

    AMG YF Moderator

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    Could it be that the whole forward deck is lifted, as the heli doesn't seem to sit very deep on the video..?
  15. HTMO9

    HTMO9 Senior Member

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    I do not think so. Even in the forward part of the foredeck, the slooping bulkwark is 0.3 to 0.5 of a meter, just high enough to catch the helicopter gear or during the flare, the tailboom.

    Below some examples of the PYC certified landing pad on the foredeck on the Luerssen yacht Areti before its sale. The pictures were taken from her sales advertisement, so definately not copy protected.

    1.jpg
    2.JPG
    3.JPG
    D-Value 12 meters, ring fully visible on deck and appropiate distance from the superstructure, weight classification up to EC-135, no obstacles around the landing area high enough to catch any part of a helo, full lighting for night ops, dedicated and trained and equipped ships ground crew for helo ops, all neccessary equipment for fire fighting and rescue and SOLAS rescue boat in the water and operational during helo ops. Very good SOP and all according to the books. The H-130 looks almost small on this deck.

    Areti was / is one of my favorite Luerssen yacht. But the asked price for her was ridiculous. Nice try but I would never pay the orginal price of the boat plus the operating costs for its almost two years of use. The main engines had 2.500 hours each and the gensets more than 4000 hours. And the VAT was not payed.
  16. Yacht News

    Yacht News YF News Editor

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    I remember just before S/Y "A" was delivered the forward tapered part of the surrounding bulwark of the 'landing area' was missing (maybe they did not install it at that point) Or maybe something is retractable in that area?
  17. Yacht News

    Yacht News YF News Editor

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    In this photo by yvangrubski you can clearly see the addition in the area I was referring to. If you look carefully at the video I posted... you can see what looks to be the same area of the bulwark missing especially seen when the helo is departing, so I think it folds down or something in that area.

    Attached Files:

  18. HTMO9

    HTMO9 Senior Member

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    Ron, do You mean this early design of the foredeck.

    2359462.JPG

    As far as I know, this design was altered, when SY "A" went under canvas for the scond time. But if this part is removable, it helps but still not certified.
  19. Yacht News

    Yacht News YF News Editor

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    Yes that is exactly what I am talking about... now look at that and look at the completed vessel and you can see the addition. Then look at the video very carefully for the departure of the helo and you can see it resembles this photo you just posted.
  20. HTMO9

    HTMO9 Senior Member

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    Ron You got me on that feature. It makes Helo OPS definately less dangerous. But a lot of effort in order to keep the flow of lines and the artist happy :). I still do not believe that SY "A" is PYC and SOLAS certified for Helo OPS.

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