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| Nobiskrug | 142.1M | S/Y "A" | 2015/17 |

Discussion in 'Nobiskrug Yacht' started by German Yachting, Sep 1, 2015.

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  1. Yacht News

    Yacht News YF News Editor

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    Well looking at it closer it might not be a full CAT hull... could be hybrid but from behind it looks catamaran but I do not see two hulls from the front.
  2. Gage Rowden7

    Gage Rowden7 Senior Member

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    Since the interior photos have been deleted I have recently found 2 more photos that have not been deleted on Instagram and they are different from the ones that were released..
  3. Gage Rowden7

    Gage Rowden7 Senior Member

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    According to her AIS she is finally making her transatlantic crossing to the Caribbean. She will be at Sint Maarten. Hopefully she will be in Florida soon.
  4. Yacht News

    Yacht News YF News Editor

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    at 15.6-knots is any of that motorsailing? I'd think she is just motoring!
  5. Gage Rowden7

    Gage Rowden7 Senior Member

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    I agree with you. Most likely just motoring but we never know they might have the sails up. I wonder how sea worthy she is?
    I would assume so but I do have some doubts.
  6. German Yachting

    German Yachting Senior Member

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    How sea worthy? She has a very high bow I’m sure she handles the seas well. The point of sail assist is to have both deployed so she probably is doing that.
  7. Gage Rowden7

    Gage Rowden7 Senior Member

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    Ah makes sense. I don't know at times I guessed I thought she might be top heavy but I guess she was engineered to handle the seas.
  8. captholli

    captholli Senior Member

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    "A" has a listed max draft of 26 ft. but no minimum draft is listed. I'm just as interested to see the underbody of "A" as I was to see from the water line up. I'm envisioning a full length keel with a drop down. Would love to see a few photos of her dry docked. I was surprised to read that she has a beam of 82 ft. which is only 28 ft shy from being a Panamax vessel beam wise. Doubt seriously if her masts would fit under the Bridge Of The Americas in Balboa. You would assume that she would have been designed to transit air draft wise.
  9. HTMO9

    HTMO9 Senior Member

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    sailing-yacht-a-propeller-aft.JPG
    sailing-yacht-bow.JPG
    Here You are, Sailing yacht during her build in the yard in Kiel. That green part on the keel is the underwater observation lounge. Some free pictures from the local newspapers.

    This monster does not sail very well and not very often. By the way, the complete sailing gear, including the masts, its steering and the sails were excluded from the contract. The yard refused any responsibility for the whole gear above deck. Wise decision!

    I personally watched Sailing Yacht A off the shore of Mallorca last year. It takes several hours from the sails completely stored in the booms to be fully raised and ready to sail. When fully geared up, it takes a lot of wind to push her forward. But with enough wind to get her going without engine power, they have to decrease the sailing area already for safety reasons and material protection. Also her masts and booms are movable within limits, it is by far not a dyna rigg and her underwater hull is not optimized for sailing.

    When she was going under sail, we could circle around her with my sailboat (without engine) with ease and she was always using her engines for additional propulsion (You could tell by her wake and her signal on the radar mast). We never saw her tacking, she only sailed downwind and as soon as she was off sight from shore, the sails went down again.

    Albeit having a sail area with enough cloth to cover a good sized circus tent, any historic cargo sailing ship can outperform her, both on and off the wind. She cant make any height. And with perfect wind on beam, she becomes a transverse runner.

    As said before, this ship has been built to be shown off, extravagance was the main goal, not sailing performance. As far as this goal is concerned, mission accomplished.

    You should watch the poor crew cleaning that hull, a complete nightmare. They have to be proficient mountain climbers and absolutly free of giddiness when hanging outside.
  10. Gage Rowden7

    Gage Rowden7 Senior Member

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    It is safe to assume that Sail Yacht A is not a sailing vessel. I would just say from now on she is a sail assisted motor yacht.
    As time goes on and technology and engineering get better I bet we will see more of these VERY large sail assisted motor yachts like A. I see this happening because you can get a large vessel with a lot of space both interior and exterior. It will be interesting to see what happens.
    Like HTMO9 said above this vessel was built just to show off and I can't agree more.
    I bet she performs nicely though and is safe while motoring and maybe sail assisted not just sail.
  11. HTMO9

    HTMO9 Senior Member

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    Windstar-Cruises-Wind-Surf-664-0.w1228.jpg
    There is nothing wrong with the term sail assisted yacht or ship. Even some cruise ships follow this route. Favorite wind helps propelling the vessel but main source of propulsion are the engines via shaft and prop(s).

    IMHO, the optimum rig for a large sailing ship or even a large sail assisted powered ship is the dyna rig. Easy to handle with almost no additional crew due to modern hydraulics and computer control. Maltese Falcon is the perfect example. Having watched MF "smoking" into a harbour in Southern France at 12 Kts +, stopping within two ship length just by turning the mast, reefing all sails in minutes and start docking with almost no activity on deck, has me totally convinced about this concept. That beast can even sail backwards.

    But back to SY "A". In my opinion, the underwater body of this hull is not really built for and as a sailing ship. For sure the hull is seaworthy and efficient in its power modi but when sailing, some of its design features are counterproductive.

    A bulbous bow for example and especially this one on SY "Y" is designed for symetrical flow of water around it in order to fulfill its purpose (extension of the effective LWL and reducing drag). But when heeling or crabbing to prevent drift, a bulbous bow adds a lot of drag and distroys the flow pattern. I can not tell, wheather this little keel has enough lateral area to prevent or minimize drift but we saw her drifting remarkably on not even lateral wind. But the keel must have enough counterweight for the momentum of the sail area up to a certain wind force, otherwise SY "A" would have not been classed. On these large "sailing ships" heel limiter are ordered by class anyhow.

    This rig is designed on the edge of todays technology. For any change in sail area, they have to take all load from the cloth and the rig. So, sailing under full sail requires a lot of thinking in advance, as any larger wind gust could destroy that very expensive assembly of carbon reinforced plastic and sensitive cloth above deck. But there have to be some preplanned breaking points included in that rig design.

    Low aspect rudder blades directly behind the props, wheather they are VP or fixed props, are not favorable for sailing ship, if sailing performance is really wanted. Traditional tall ships have mostly unbroken lateral plans with single props and protected rudder, mainly for the reason, that engines were added to existing hull designs. Modern hulls of larger sail boats have mostly twin props with single high aspect free hanging rudder or single prop just behind the keel with larger distance to the rudder for undisturbed flow of water around the rudder blade(s). Modern rudder blades of todays larger sailboats have high lift laminar airfoils in order to create high steering forces with lowest possible angle of attack. Higher angles of attack produce high induced drag and turbulent flow of water, which costs speed and maneuverability.

    Yacht "A" is a flamboyant design with some dramatic appearance and a milstone in megayacht design but the difficulties during docking, cleaning and maintenance of that yacht is unloading the trouble on the back of the crew.

    But the design of SY "A" is IMHO beyound anything from the design point of view up to practicability and ease of navigation but what did we say in our younger days: "Go ugly early" :p.

    Just my 2 (Euro) Cents
  12. Gage Rowden7

    Gage Rowden7 Senior Member

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    A photo I saw on social media in which a crew member posted shows SY A with her front mast sail up. I would guess that all three are up. It looks quite good. I wonder how much extra speed they get from the sails?
  13. Kevin

    Kevin YF Moderator

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    Extra speed, or reduced fuel burn to maintain specific cruise speed...
  14. 101TUG

    101TUG Senior Member

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    Yesterday in St Barth going back on harbor, we didn't resist to make a 360° around S/Y A and drone shot
    DJI_0352 copie.jpg DJI_0408 copie.jpg DJI_0424 copie.jpg
    This is huge vessel
  15. Gage Rowden7

    Gage Rowden7 Senior Member

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    Very nice shots! She grows on me slowly. I can only hope to see her in South Florida one day.
  16. chesapeake46

    chesapeake46 Senior Member

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    @ 101TUG.....I like yours better.
  17. 101TUG

    101TUG Senior Member

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    me too but real S/Y A you love or you don't love but when you going close at sea you can't stay indifferent
  18. brian eiland

    brian eiland Senior Member

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  19. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    So
    I keep thinking about a Sailing ship vs a Sail Assisted ship (power boat).
    Lots of great comments just above but not a solid answer how-why s/v A is a sailboat.

    If I raise a Steadying sail on my Bertram, could I class as a sailboat?
    Even though I'm motoring and just rag assisted?
    Or do I just need to raise a stick and call it a mast (Gin Pole)?
    Last edited: May 21, 2019
  20. Ken Bracewell

    Ken Bracewell Senior Member

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    Are you talking about for determining right of way? A vessel is only considered under sail if it is truly sailing. Although it rarely happens, and I've only seen it in person a dozen or so times, a vessel who is carrying a sail, and is also under power assist, is required to carry a day shape cone in the rigging. In that case, they do not have any elevated right of way over other power driven vessels.

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