Click for Westport Click for Abeking Click for Llebroc Click for Nordhavn Click for Walker

New Shore Power Pedestals sensitivity

Discussion in 'Technical Discussion' started by 993RSR, Jul 24, 2020.

You need to be registered and signed in to view this content.
  1. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2008
    Messages:
    10,763
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    A lot of home docks, transient slips or when boats are in for repairs will only have 30 amp service and often just one. It's not unusual, just inconvenient.
  2. DOCKMASTER

    DOCKMASTER Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2012
    Messages:
    619
    Location:
    Ketchikan, Alaska
    On my boat when I had to use 110v instead of 220v none of my panel meters worked (amps, Hz, volts, etc). I didn't think I even had power until I turned on some lights.
  3. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2008
    Messages:
    10,763
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    Sure you were turned on at all breakers? The lights are probably 12 or 24v so they're not telling.
  4. DOCKMASTER

    DOCKMASTER Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2012
    Messages:
    619
    Location:
    Ketchikan, Alaska
    Yes, I’m sure. Other items turned on as well and lights are fed from a/c.
  5. GPO

    GPO New Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2016
    Messages:
    15
    Location:
    West Vancouver, British Columbia
    Here in the Pacific Northwest we've been encountering this issue where marinas have upgraded their facilities.

    Waggoner Cruising Guide - the cruising bible for these waters - has an article on this. To quote the article: "As marinas upgrade their facilities, they will be required by building code to add Equipment Leakage Circuit Interrupter (ELCI) ground fault protection breakers to shore power receptacles. ELCI-protected breakers are designed to ‘trip’ and turn-off power if an imbalance is detected between the power (amperage) going to the boat and returning back to the shore power receptacle. In the past, marina shore power receptacle breakers only protected wiring and cables from over-amperage. The new ELCI-protected breakers will trip, turning off power, if the boat incorrectly leaks amperage ortoo much amperage is consumed."

    Here's the link to the article on their website: https://waggonerguide.com/elci-protected-shore-power/

    They also have another article on how to prepare your boat to avoid ECLI problems: https://waggonerguide.com/shore-power-how-to-prepare-your-boat-and-avoid-elci-problems/
  6. chesapeake46

    chesapeake46 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2009
    Messages:
    1,521
    Location:
    Chesapeake Bay, Delaware Bay & S.Jersey
    This is true in the US also except they are just called GFCI's
  7. Oscarvan

    Oscarvan Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2015
    Messages:
    883
    Location:
    Chesapeake Bay
    Nope. Single outlets, circuits are GFCI. The system protecting the entire shore power connection are called ELCI. They do the same thing, it's matter of terminology.
  8. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2008
    Messages:
    10,763
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    Thank you gentlemen for an education. This is the first I've heard about ELCIs. ln my home I've got one line with 3 GFCIs on it. We had the microwave and coffee maker on that line and it was forever tripping one of the 4 breakers till I moved the coffee pot. Now on boats you'll have the GFCIs, along with an ELCI and then ELCIs on the pedestals and further down the line. Sounds good for safety but a nightmare for dockmasters and transient boaters.
  9. Worthy vessel

    Worthy vessel Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2019
    Messages:
    55
    Location:
    Sarasota
    What about some kind of transformer that would change the 30 amp (110v) shore power to 220 v for the boat end? I realize you would loose some amps but even 20 amps at 220 v would be OK
  10. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2008
    Messages:
    10,763
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    You'll be shortening the life span of your appliances IF you get away with it.
  11. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    13,412
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    The only thing I know of that does that is a converter like an Atlas, the Atlas brand is very expensive.
  12. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2008
    Messages:
    5,881
    Location:
    Miami, FL
    Won’t work. American 240v uses two 120v hots on opposing phases. N is not used

    If you were to put a transformer to go bring one 120v hot to 240v you d have 240v across H to N. It would fry any US 240v appliance.

    it would work in Europe where 240v is one 240V hot and N
  13. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    13,412
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    I believe that an Atlas converter somehow changes any input into whatever output you need. (volts/frequency). Although I am not super knowledgeable on it.
  14. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2008
    Messages:
    5,881
    Location:
    Miami, FL
    Yes I think they do but way too expensive as a work around to avoid an issue with lack of 50amp
    Service
  15. DOCKMASTER

    DOCKMASTER Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2012
    Messages:
    619
    Location:
    Ketchikan, Alaska
    Is there a specific 220v appliance or piece of equipment you are trying to run when you only have the 110v available? Maybe there are other ways to solve your challenge. You seem to realize you have limited amps regardless so this is what prompts my question.
  16. rtrafford

    rtrafford Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2019
    Messages:
    843
    Location:
    Vero Beach
    I have the system. Atlas will convert 50 Hertz to 60. It will balance and stabilize the frequency and voltage of the incoming power. With a boost transformer in series, the overall system will increase voltage as much as perhaps 40 volts, but of course as it does it requires amps to make the conversion. So if your marina is using a 3 phase transformer without the boost to supply the power, you'll be getting 208 and not 240. Atlas plus the boost gets you to 240, but your consumption perhaps doubles.

    Atlas is a terrific system, but it won't get the 120 to 240. You'd need a special boost transformer aside for that to happen. That double of voltage is, then, a double in amps consumed. So your typical 30 useful amps of 240 would need a 60 amp supply to allow the boost to happen and be sustained.
  17. rtrafford

    rtrafford Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2019
    Messages:
    843
    Location:
    Vero Beach

    Yeah, good way to ask the question. You can get boost transformers that will convert 120 to 240. Don't know that I'd feel very comfortable using them aboard on a regular basis, though.
  18. rtrafford

    rtrafford Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2019
    Messages:
    843
    Location:
    Vero Beach
    My home marina uses a basic 3 phase transformer and provides 208v to the panel, and not 240. TO safely overcome the challenges and to not overly tax my onboard systems, I invested in a buck boost 208 to 240 transformer at the panel location. The unit provides my circuit with 100 amps of 240 volts, boosting the incoming 208. My issue was the wire run from the source was several hundred feet, and the voltage drop by the time it reached my Atlas system was at times below 100 volts per leg. When the local grid was hot in the afternoons and evenings during warm days, the voltage sagged. The power on board was almost useless.

    The outcome was 240 volts at the main panel, up from 208. The voltage at the pedestal went up from 204 to 236. At my panel aboard, the voltage increased from 98 per leg to around 115 (230), and the boost aboard took me to my 240 without effort. My power consumption at the pedestal meter was cut by roughly 40%, but more importantly, I wasn't burning up compressors or motors.