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New Shore Power Pedestals sensitivity

Discussion in 'Technical Discussion' started by 993RSR, Jul 24, 2020.

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  1. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Actually using analogies to compare types of customers and boat owners. It must be a lot of work intentionally being that obtuse.
  2. ranger42c

    ranger42c Senior member

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    In general... if the boat has and 220V appliances, or an isolation transformer... a single 30A pedestal shorepower source won't really work well for you.

    OTOH, many 50A boats don't actually have any 220V appliances, so running on a single, reduced amperage shorepower feed could maybe at least get you through some weekends. (Only you can decide.)

    And I think many of the 50A boats built before (2003/04???) don't have isolation transformers... so don't need a minimum of 208V to "light up" the boat (so to speak)... and therefore a single 30A, reduaced amperage feed using adapters could actually work. (Back to "only you can decide" whether that would be sufficient.)

    Relevant to the thread's pedestal sensitivity issue: I've read the auto transfer mechanism on some inverters may not work as fast as the new GFCIs/ELCI. No clue whether feasible, true, etc., or if true, no clue what inverter brands/products might be germane.

    -Chris
  3. DOCKMASTER

    DOCKMASTER Senior Member

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    The marina I'm at got rebuilt a few years back and installed all new power pedestals. There are lots of older boats and commercial fishing boats. Nearly all of them had issues tripping the breakers on the new pedestals. Local electricians were very busy tracing current leaks and installing isolation transformers. This will continue as marinas get built and updated to new code requirements
  4. cleanslate

    cleanslate Senior Member

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    All I can say is I was a Watch Hill for a few great beach/ davis parks days, and I need 50amp 120 volt only and I had either two 30 amps into my 50 amp Y or just 50 amp 120 volt. I can not remember, but I had plenty of electric. Again I do not need 240 volt, but need the Amps for running everything. Stay away from boats of that size with 240 volt , it will cause you dockage ''freedom'' problems, just like Fire Island.
    IMO, Watchhill is a much nicer spot. I was there the first summer after the Sandy rebuild.
  5. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    A nice thing about Fire Island is that every town, beach and marina has a totally different feel and totally different people from the sedate to the OMG. Power though is an issue and a different one at each.
  6. cleanslate

    cleanslate Senior Member

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    That is true, from what I read before going there. Only was there once, at the'' New'' Watch Hill national seashore marina. We had a great , both relaxing and up-beat time. The park and sea shore it's self was fabulous! We were lucky and had perfect weather the three day we were there. Clean quite beach , nice surf and clean blue water. Davis Park was a nice leisurely walk down the beach or the path, to shop, dine or drink, drink and dine..lol.
    It was nice to be away from cars and any motorized vehicles. You can only walk to get around, I'm not sure if you can bike around. I don't remember any.
    I've never been to the islands , as may here on YF have, but to me it sure seemed like the Caribbean to me. Nice low key vibe, not to crowded. And no,OMG! as you said like the other spots on Fire Island, from what I've read.
    My 42' boat was the big boat of the marina btw, not much room for big boats there. They had two or so 60' slips with a small park police boat in one and some other small state vessel in the other.
    Both of which could have be birthed elsewhere in the marina to make room for bigger boats.
  7. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    The OMG is down at Cherry Grove and the Pines. Next west Ocean Beach is very family (lots of bikes in these areas), then a couple of Richie Rich beaches. West from there is the nude and car accessible beaches at Robert Moses. There used to be a real quiet beach east of Watch Hill called "Old Inlet" (used by fishermen in the 1800's), but it's now the New inlet thanks to Sandy. Then you've got the other nude beach and public beach accessible by car and then the real gem for beach camping, surfing and fishing only accessible by 4 wheeler and small boat. Very diverse, fun and beautiful island.
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2020
  8. cleanslate

    cleanslate Senior Member

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    Oh yeah !? You really seem to be up on your nude beaches there! NYCAP 123, do you get out there let that thing flap around in the breeze and sand?! o_O
  9. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    70 next month. Nobody wants to see me flap anymore. lol.o_O
  10. Worthy vessel

    Worthy vessel Member

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    Sorry to repeat this question but I would like to rephrase it.
    Is there a way to convert a single 30amp 110 volt shore power to a 50 amp 220 volt boat. This would be for temporary dockage a few times a year.
    All I would need is refrigerator, battery charger and water heater. This will effect the boat that we purchase.
  11. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Yes, with a 30 to 50 adapter. https://www.delcity.net/store/30A-M...LhdqPYFdsHZivFTSQ0TkAr9ZJgZ4GYpBoC2vwQAvD_BwE
    Then shut off what draws more such as the air conditioning. If you put on too much draw you'll see it in your meter and you'll pop the breaker. The fridge and battery charger should be no problem. The water heater may be a problem though as would your air conditioning. Depending on your water heater you may get away with shutting everything down while you heat your hot water tank, and then shut the water heater. You should know immediately as the heater draws the most when it first kicks on.
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2020
  12. Worthy vessel

    Worthy vessel Member

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    Wow I never saw this! Thanks so much!
    Do you know if the shore side plug, which is at a right angle will fit the marine shore pedestal?
  13. Oscarvan

    Oscarvan Senior Member

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    To add to the load management suggestions, when you first plug in your battery charger the draw is quite high. After a few hours it (should) go to a trickle charge and at that point you have freed up a few amps to do other things with.
  14. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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  15. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Good point. Do you know how much a battery charger surges? I didn't think they went over 30 amps, but I could definitely be wrong.
  16. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    Note that reverse or smart Y only work when the two 30 Amps outlets are on opposing phases. Sometimes they are, sometimes they Are not.

    if using a dumb pigtail that allows you to plug a 50amp cord into a 30amp outlet, not only you will be limited to about 1/3 of your power needs but you won’t be able to run anything requiring 240v. Depends on the boat, but that could be stovetop, water heater, air con etc

    battery chargers don’t use that much power even in bulk mode. Depends on the charger size. I have two 30amp battery chargers on my boat, one 12v and one 24v. They require 10 amp breakers. I doubt they use more than 5 amps.
  17. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Yes running a 50 amp boat on 30 amps is just for the basics. Stoves, water heaters, clothes driers, air conditioners, etc. are questionable at best although in times of need you may get away with some if you shut everything else down. Fridge should be ok. Thanks for the info on chargers Pascal. I never had to give that a thought before. So his batteries will stay charged which means he'll have lights and be able to start his motors. The big Hats from the 80's like I ran and Pascal has are energy hogs (mine needed 100 amps). A more modern 50 amp boat like the Viking I ran should pull less juice, but you'll still be limited on the big stuff. I'm not an electrician so I DK about the opposing phase situation, but I've never run into it. One marina I ran put in all 30 amp outlets when they redid their docks which meant all the bigger boats had to lay out for these expensive adapters. It was one of those F the customers cause we can deals, so I sold them the adapters at our cost.
  18. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    https://www.marinco.com/en/p30-504

    Single 30A-115Vac male plug - Single 50A-230Vac female plug.

    The docks single 30A breaker provides protection to both of the L leads in the 50A connect.
    Ensure all 230Vac equipment is off at the breaker.
    30A is not much on a 230Vac boat and I would not recommend this setup for anything less than an emergency.
  19. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    This is will not run any 240v appliance at all, even if well below 30amp as 240v needs two hots on opposing phases. 240v does not use neutral This only provides one. And then splits it. It is useful as it will power Some circuits on both 120v legs of an electrical panel but no 240 v circuits.
  20. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Correct