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New Princess 55 - Quality Control problems?

Discussion in 'Princess Yacht' started by Mikolebi, Jun 13, 2018.

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  1. motoryachtlover

    motoryachtlover Senior Member

    Jan 29, 2007
    smithfield, VA
    Scott W seeking your insight not disagreeing. Why do you not like arbitration. I have been involved in that twice. It seems to promote settlement via compromise. But is compromise (getting half of your damages) all that bad when I feel like the courtroom can be a crap shoot. I have been signing contracts that call for arbitration. I get the feeling you don’t or would not.
  2. Scott W

    Scott W Member

    Apr 11, 2017
    It's not that I 'don't like' arbitration. As a business owner, I love arbitration in customer contracts because it generally limits my exposure when I’ve failed. And/But, as a business owner, I'm skeptical of arbitration clauses in vendor contracts and here's why: Arbitration is private. If you have a vendor who has failed to fulfill his end of a contractual agreement and that agreement has an arbitration clause, any pressure the vendor has to settle the claim to avoid unflattering information coming to light in the litigation/discovery process, is largely eliminated.

    Additionally, when you're confined to arbitration, your powers of discover are also limited and wholly dependent upon the specific language of the arbitration agreement. Even more problematically, punitive damages, injunctive relief and judicial/appellate review are all limited or expressly prohibited in arbitration. There are several other shortcomings for the consumer/purchaser that can potentially manifest themselves in arbitration clauses, but these are the ones I have found to be most problematic.

    I think for routine purchases, arbitration clauses are fine and probably beneficial because the process is so much quicker and less expensive. But, for capitalized/big ticket purchases, I generally avoid arbitration clauses like the plague.
  3. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

    Sep 2, 2013
    Fort Lauderdale
    As Scott outlines very well, the one advantage of arbitration is time and cost, although arbitration is increasingly getting very expensive itself. Consumers are often shocked by the cost of arbitration. The cost of initiating the claim is actually far more than filing a suit. However, the court process with discovery can be extended for years by a company determined to overwhelm the other party. In addition to time, the continuing legal fees mount up to overwhelm most individuals.

    One other negative of arbitration in consumer vs. business. Often in a consumer case, a jury trial is the most favorable situation, over a judge or arbitration. Juries do tend to be more receptive to the harmed individual vs. the massive conglomerate.

    One other advantage of arbitration is that you may be able to get an arbitrator with knowledge in the field where that is highly unlikely with a judge. Patent disputes are a great example.

    Consumer to business, as a consumer I will agree to arbitration on small items, and to a non-binding arbitration on major items, but not binding (typically non-binding says that if the one who then takes it to court fails to improve their position, they're responsible for all legal costs for both sides.) Some states like NC have excellent non-binding arbitration.

    Consumer to business, as a consumer on large items, I'd be very reluctant to agree to biding arbitration.

    Business to business, I have no major problem with the right kind of arbitration clause.

    Specifically in this situation of customer vs. Princess, in an arbitration procedure, customer may have a very difficult, although not impossible, time ever finding out the true story of what happened to the boat. In a court procedure, with discovery, someone is going to probably disclose the information once under oath in a deposition.
  4. Mikolebi

    Mikolebi New Member

    Jun 13, 2018
    Just to clarify a possible misconception: we are not seeking revenge but merely sharing our experiences to raise public awareness. And yes, our priority is to make people aware of what in reality is being said and done behind closed doors. Getting the sale revoked or damage compensation is something that our legal team will need to think about if and when time comes.

    We do not mean to be rude if we do not answer some of your questions. It's just that we are not allowed to do so, for either legal or strategic reasons.

    Correct. We have absolutely no intention nor any reason to turn it ugly as we are not intending on damaging the reputation of any person or entity. We are only sharing true facts which we could support with photos, videos, documents etc.

    The blog is being updated almost on a daily basis therefore all status updates are accurate. Items pending are marked in red. As defects/problems get fixed, we're changing their status to green, also indicating the number of days it took Princess to fix the problem.
  5. cleanslate

    cleanslate Senior Member

    May 29, 2018
    Cherry Hill, NJ
    Quit messing around.....Get your money back, and or hold any other payments walk away form the sales contract, move on and look at another boat builder and boat. This boat has been used and well abused.
    There is only so much lip stick you can put on a pig. They maybe able to 'Fix' all the problems to a working condition at the dock, but things will surly start failing under poor sea conditions. This boat will never be "Right"...
    Kevin likes this.
  6. Commodore J

    Commodore J New Member

    Dec 31, 2018
    You are getting good advice. I had significant problems after buying a new Italian MY in NY in 2000. I created 100 pages of text and photo documentation that I personally delivered to the manufacturers CEO. I did not publish anything but the CEO knew I could. I avoided the local dealership bc they were a big part of the problem.

    The manufacturers CEO flew to NY from Italy to personally see my boat and several others that were having problems. The CEO personally oversaw the repairs and later offered a fair financial settlement as a sincere apology. This CEO is now CEO of another manufacturer and I’d buy another boat from him in a second.

    I suggest you contact the top executives at Princess and even LVMH if necessary. I believe they will want to make it right. For now I think you would be better served pausing your website as others have suggested.
  7. jayjay

    jayjay New Member

    Jan 6, 2016
    Riviera Beach
    Its been eight months since the buyer spoke.
    We deserve to hear the rest of the story?

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