Click for JetForums Click for Nordhavn Click for Cross Click for Lurssen Click for Mag Bay

New owner got stuck in mud in main channel

Discussion in 'Technical Discussion' started by seajewel, Dec 27, 2008.

You need to be registered and signed in to view this content.
  1. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2008
    Messages:
    9,582
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    Right on as usual Ken, but I'd still go for the haul. Remember this is a 33 foot. A haul isn't expensive and I'd really like to look over the running gear in the daylight. Plus, we know a prop has to be changed which would mean a second dive since he doesn't have a spare. The struts and shaft are also a lot skinnier than on your boat and a very slight bit off will cause problems.
  2. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2008
    Messages:
    5,312
    Location:
    Miami, FL
    NYCAP I agree, maybe i posted that before my second cup of coffee :)

    i meant that it's easier to learn things one by one than trying to cope with everything at the same time... Seems to me that SJ is at the bottom of the learning curve and is likely to stick to clear day, good weather runs in the near future. At that stage, sticking to the basics of navigation with paper charts, plotter and sounder is the priority. Then after a few successful runs, he can add radar and having a split screen set up means that the bigger the plotter screen, the better for the time being.
  3. seajewel

    seajewel New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2008
    Messages:
    19
    Location:
    De Anza Marina, Newport Beach, CA
    Fog can occur in Newport Beach - both your advice is excellent -- ?? I thought the prop can be pulled, taken to a shop, and then replaced while boat is in the water?? Should I do a haul out to ensure everything else is OK?

    The oil is your typical light to dark mixed with some water - I was thinking that maybe its best that I clean it dry and monitor more closely with turning on the engines and once props are examined/repaired/replaced - take the boat out for short trips - meanwhile, I will stay stationary - play with my electronics - range in and out - get familiar with my electronics visually . Then pay attention as I move to see how things change visually on the electronics - I love the rear-view mirror example - this, although humbling, is a great experience!

    Should I re-start my engines in neutral and observe in the ER for any clues to these mysterious happenings.
    The Boat is a 2005 - bought in April 2006 originally and was sold to me with only 67 hours on the engines (checked electronically by the engine surveyer!). Essentially - its new! ( well - until now!) :eek:
  4. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2008
    Messages:
    9,582
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    My opinion would be to haul. Yes the prop can be changed out easily. In fact on that boat you could probably do it snorkeling (althought I seem to remember your water as being like ice :D ). I'd save that for emergencies though and let your yard take a look at everything. It will also give you an opportunity to get aquainted with the service dept. and them with you.
    You mentioned that the boat had only an engine survey. While the boat is out of the water go down the hull tapping it every few inches with your knuckle looking for sogged areas. You'll know the sound you don't want to hear if you hear it.
    The oil sounds new with a little bilge dirt. It's probably a non-issue. Clean it up and monitor it. Line your engine boxes with oil pads. It will save you work in the future.
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2008
  5. Ken Bracewell

    Ken Bracewell Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2006
    Messages:
    1,373
    Location:
    Somewhere Sunny
    You probably won't see anything until the engines are put under a load. 67 hours in 2 years isn't much so you may just have some dried gaskets which should be anything to worry about. The vibration is a sure sign of a bent prop. The first engine stall was likely due to digging a prop blade into the bottom. The second may have been the same thing if you were still in shallow water, or may have been caused by picking something (i.e. a piece of line) off the bottom when you touched.
    I would check the oil level in the transmissions and keep a close eye as they surely took the brunt of the force that stalled the engines (other than the prop).
    Good luck.
    Ken
    BTW- It's nice to see the YF senior guys jumping in to help a new owner/member. This thread is a text book version of how this Forum is meant to help others.
  6. seajewel

    seajewel New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2008
    Messages:
    19
    Location:
    De Anza Marina, Newport Beach, CA
    Thanks for all your advice!
    I am going to print this thread and apply the constructive advice collectively.
    I did have the marine survey done -- the surveyor was great - he did all the tapping - hugged my then perfect props:) ! He also showed me things to look for.
    I did find on ebay another prop 22X22 RH - in great condition (bronze for $350) -- do you think I should just get it or do I need to buy an exact matching pair ( Kind of like tires on a car? Forgive me in advance for my being a beginner!). My standard props are the 22X22!
    Once again, thank you all for your wonderful guidance ( I do not plan to go out on any hazy day until I have a much better familiarity with the electronics and appreciation of mother nature( tides,etc). :eek:
  7. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2008
    Messages:
    9,582
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    I believe that RH stands for right hand although I could be wrong. If so , the price is right so buy one that hopefully you'll never use :) . You should have counter rotating props so keep looking for a LH. If sized properly (22x22) they should be fine as spares. Depending on whether your props spin inward or outward(most likely) mark it with a S or P to save confusion down the road.
    P.S. If I'm correct in the meaning of RH and your props spin outward that prop would be for your starboard side. Put it atop your current prop and you'll see if the direction of the cupping matches. BTW- @ $350 count on it being reconed, but that's no big deal if done right.
  8. seajewel

    seajewel New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2008
    Messages:
    19
    Location:
    De Anza Marina, Newport Beach, CA
    Thank you! That helps!
    Hisham:)
  9. nas130

    nas130 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2005
    Messages:
    86
    Location:
    florida
    Before you buy those props keep in mind the shaft's taper. There is US taper and Euro taper. The best I can explain it is that US taper goes from wide to narrow over a longer distance than European taper (similar to slope). I would also try to buy a matching pair of props. A matching pair will be made of the same alloys, have exact same layout, cup, pitch, overlap, etc... I would contact Carver or a local dealer, someone is bound to have a set laying around

    Being on the water is a constant learning experience, running aground in the channel is not unheard of, it has happened twice to professional captains that I know recently.

    Welcome to the forum!

    Nicholas
  10. seajewel

    seajewel New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2008
    Messages:
    19
    Location:
    De Anza Marina, Newport Beach, CA
    Thank you Nicholas!
    I went to the boat earlier today -- all is dry! Thats encouraging; My diver will check the props tomorrow - will go from there -- what do you all think about 21X21 Nibrals vs the standard 22X22 nibrals currently on the boat -- does it really make much of a difference??
    Thank you,
    Hisham
    P.S. This forum has been very supportive and encouraging to be overly cautious and to develop a wonderful relationship with my boat.... I am planning to do the renaming ceremony prior to taking her out again!

    http://www.boatsafe.com/nauticalknowhow/rename.htm :eek:
  11. nas130

    nas130 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2005
    Messages:
    86
    Location:
    florida
    I would contact a well respected prop shop in your area. I have only had one set of propellers made for me and I learned a bit about the process. 21x21 means that the propellers have one inch less in diameter(the first number) and one inch less in pitch (the second number). Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe a one inch reduction in pitch will increase the wide open throttle (WOT) rpms on the main engines by 100 x the transmissions reduction ratio. So say your regular props achieved 2300 RPM at WOT with the 22x22 props, if your transmission gear ratio is 2.0:1 and you lower the pitch by 1 in then your WOT RPM will be 2500. Changing the diameter will also effect the rpm, but I know less on that subject. The 100 multiplier can change based on hull type boat weight, etc.

    First, I think you should recondition your current props. If the props aren't badly bent you will lose only a little strength and you will be back on the water. When propellers have been badly mangled and they are straightened they lose some thickness in the metal of the blades. When these blades are put under load they flex and become less efficient. The boat will burn more fuel to go the same speed. Once the propellers are back on go for a sea trial. On the sea trial you want to run the boat through the rpm range. You are looking for vibration, which would indicate a bent shaft, and that you are getting the maximum RPMs out of your engines. If you are getting less rpms then your reconditioned propeller blades are flexing as they go through the water. Before the seatrial make sure the bottom and fuel filters are clean, they both can effect load and rpm.

    The reason that I do not think you should try and buy props off the internet is that you really do not know what you are getting. When I had my new props made the prop shop wanted to know the following: make and model, the boats weight, hull shape, main engines including horsepower, shaft size, reduction ration, current propeller diameter, pitch, overlap, taper, cup, number of blades, etc.. Using these numbers he came up with a propeller that was different than the factory propellers, but caused the boat to pick up speed at cruise and wot. We didn't have to tweak those propellers, but according to the prop shot they could have altered the new propellers pitch by up to two inches.

    Good luck with your diver today.

    Nicholas
  12. seajewel

    seajewel New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2008
    Messages:
    19
    Location:
    De Anza Marina, Newport Beach, CA
    Wow -- Thanks Nichloas - you answered my question to the new thread I put on the board!! That really helps -- patience is good.:)