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New E-15 Ethanol Gas creating BIG problems!

Discussion in 'Technical Discussion' started by brian eiland, Jun 14, 2014.

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  1. brian eiland

    brian eiland Senior Member

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    Senate bill introduced to kill corn-ethanol mandate

    U.S. Sens. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., and Pat Toomey, R-Pa., introduced the Corn Ethanol Mandate Elimination Act of 2015, which would eliminate only the corn ethanol mandate portion of the Renewable Fuel Standard.

    Although the bill, which was introduced Thursday, does not specifically cap E10, which the marine industry supports, passage would gut the main driver of higher ethanol — corn.

    The National Marine Manufacturers Association applauds the bipartisan move by Toomey and Feinstein as they work to address the Renewable Fuel Standard.

    “The RFS is a broken law, which sets unrealistic fuel mandates and requires a long-term fix from Congress,” the NMMA said in a statement.


    http://www.tradeonlytoday.com/2015/03/house-bill-introduced-kill-corn-ethanol-mandate/


    It will be interesting to see how our politicians handle this situation. I'd be willing to bet the American public will not be considered primary above those wishes of the special interest of ethanol 'investors'.
  2. ychtcptn

    ychtcptn Senior Member

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    Well the first primary state is Iowa, it will be interesting to hear the candidates from both sides try and avoid this issue and come up with non answers!
  3. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Checked the political climate in this country lately? I'll be surprised if any legislation gets passed, much less one as controversial as this. I echo Ychtcptn's statement. It'll look like an episode of Dancing With the Stars.
  4. Opcn

    Opcn Senior Member

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    That is superlative news.
  5. TeKeela

    TeKeela Member

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    Great news! Now maybe we can keep those squeezins out of the tank and back in the jar where they belong!
  6. brian eiland

    brian eiland Senior Member

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    Ethanol in Diesel
    There was a discussion of this possibility over on a Trawler Forum.

    One of the quotes in that discussion that caught my attention:
  7. OrthoKevin

    OrthoKevin Member

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    Bob Seger said it best (re corporate/political class) "I used her, she used me but neither one cared....we were getting our share"

    Great repost, good stuff.
  8. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    All the automotive diesel in Europe has at least 10% Ethanol in it according to the stickers on the pumps.
  9. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    Here in the U.S., they derive ethanol from Corn. It takes more energy to extract the ethanol, than what the ethanol produces. It's a loss game.
  10. Lepke

    Lepke Member

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    Most of you are parroting the people that want to end oil in any form. Somehow with a windmill and electric tractors, farmers can work their fields. Maybe on a bicycle??? You hear one side of the issues and become a believer. While it takes diesel to make ethanol, many farmers grow a crop like oil seed to make their own biodiesel. There are several "home" biodiesel plants for sale. So a farmer making his own fuel isn't using "more diesel than the ethanol produced". And the fuel dollars stay on the farm.
    Also, the ethanol grain isn't lost. Dried or wet, it makes an excellent animal feed. The fed grain displaces an equal amount of grain harvested and fed in the old way.
    So to recap, to make ethanol you may or may not use diesel. The leftover brewer's grain has already had the diesel charged against it. The animal feed is actually produced energy free (except for a small amount of electricity for brewing). Cows do better on brewers grain than traditional grain rations. I know. A long time ago I had a dairy for 3 years. Long story, but I fed wet brewers grain and the cows produced more milk. I don't remember the numbers, but 100 acres of oil seed would have met all my diesel needs.
    So what is the real hidden agenda?
  11. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    I don't know about oil seed. IT and sugar may be more efficient

    But from CORN that the U.S. is using, it is a big money loser to produce ethanol for the energy required to ship it to and from the refinery AND the electricity to process it consumes more energy to create the ethanol than the ethanol provides. I do know the feed after it's processed is the same, I worked for the largest cattle feeder in the world at one time.

    AND, the ethanol has ruined more engines in the Automotive, Marine and offroad environment than anything. It's one thing for engine manufacturers to be required to make ethanol happy engines and those engines use a percentage of ethanol. BUT when you force it on the marine industry like some states have, and you have people ruining their fiberglass fuel tanks and engines and costing Joe Shmoe tens of thousands of dollars because his boat was designed to run on gasoline and not giving him a choice. That's VERY wrong.

    Now they want to add that crap to diesel and force it on us. Think of how many yachts that have fiberglass fuel tanks that will be destroyed by the ethanol, leaking fuel into the ocean and destroying the boats. Hatteras has been using built in fiberglass fuel tanks for decades now, Cabo has, many other builders.......Not to mention it's effects on diesel engines that were never designed for it.
  12. brian eiland

    brian eiland Senior Member

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    About a week ago I was given a Craftsman water pressure sprayer from an estate situation. Naturally it had been sitting idle for some undetermined period of time.

    Yesterday I decide to inspect it and see what it might need to get it running. Looked into the fuel tank and saw this white wispy looking material floating around in little clumps,..WOW, what the hell is that! I drained some of the 'fuel' out into a cup. It did not even smell like fuel.

    Has anyone ever detected a whitesh material like this in ethanol fuel?

    I tried some google searches and ran across a few interesting postings. Here is one that was a bit surprising on the % of ethanol.
  13. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    Ethanol free fuel is not available in Europe to the best of my knowledge. The dilution of fuel with FAME is a real life issue and one of the reasons we demand a statement on the BDN as the FAME contents and then verify it by FOBAS.

    That said I have left weed whackers, leaf blowers , chainsaws, snow plough and a mower over winter with the fuel in the tank. The only one that gives problems is the mower that has a plastic cone that doubles as a carbbie. This ends up with a couple of dark globules in it which when blown out and reassembled the mower runs fine for the summer.
  14. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    Yes, my first experience with ethanol was with a 15' Novourania with a 60hp Honda we had as a tender. Ran it around for 3 days with the fuel in the tank that was ethanol free. Fueled it up in Virginia at the fuel dock and the pump had a big 10% Ethanol sticker on it. Left the marina, brought it up to cruise and about 1/2 a mile the engine just died. Unscrew the pint sized primary fuel filter and all this white fluffy looking stuff like you described was full in it, dumped it out, got the motor running again, went about a mile and the same thing happened......motor died, dumped out fuel filter.......after about the 4th time it was fine. Ethanol is some nasty stuff. But the first time you use it in something that's never had it, I guess it cleans any varnish on the fuel tank walls etc, and you end up with that fluffy white looking stuff clogging your fuel filters.

    In anything that you're not going through a tank of gas monthly, use stabilizer meant for ethanol.
  15. brian eiland

    brian eiland Senior Member

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    Look at this mess,...courtesy of ethanol

    Attached Files:

  16. brian eiland

    brian eiland Senior Member

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    Hard to get a photo of the cotton type pieces in the fuel (what fuel, it no longer spelled like any fuel at all,..more like dirty water). Tried to get photo on black plastic tray

    Attached Files:

  17. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    Yep, That's old, water absorbed S#%$& (stuff) gas.
    Not only does the alcohol effect rubber and gaskets, dissolves varnish that should be left alone, it adsorbs water and when it sits, the water attacks alloys and metals.You can see in the pic water damage to the carburetor.
  18. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    Remember when we used to ad de-natured alcohol to our gas to remove water. I'd say maybe 0.10 percent max. The instructions were to burn the remaining fuel completely before adding fresh fuel.
    Worked fairly well.
    Now it's at 10% and soon 15% alcohol and you can not clear your tank of this poison....

    How quick the reports of glass tanks falling in and killing engines has passed and been buried.

    Oh, remember, the government (at higher cost) is here to help.
  19. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    Subject to admin edit;
    Yep, I have an axe to grind. Gas-ass-all is a great example of bending good people over.
  20. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    The presence of white crud in the carb of an engine that has been left laying around for a long time is not a new phenomenon. I remember seeing that sort of thing nearly 50 yrs ago in some of the old vehicles we used to get running now and again.

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