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New E-15 Ethanol Gas creating BIG problems!

Discussion in 'Technical Discussion' started by brian eiland, Jun 14, 2014.

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  1. AMG

    AMG YF Moderator

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    We have it in Europe too, both the ethanol in gasoline and the problems. In Sweden they have now discovered that also the E85 cars are driving on gasoline instead of ethanol, since they are getting less problems and a better range.
  2. SomeTexan

    SomeTexan Member

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    Half of the problem is the fact that they will run on e85 or regular fuel. To properly use e85, you need to be over 12.5-1 compression, although 13.5-1 is where my best results have been. Now, if the engine had enough compression to run the e85, it wouldn't run at all on pump gas. These flex fuel vehicles ruin the reputation of a good fuel because they aren't built to use that fuel. I know a lot of drag racers who have successfully swapped from c16 race fuel to e85, and ended up going faster on a fuel that costs a tenth of the price of race gas. E85 is becoming popular with boosted engines too. Check YouTube for e85 dyno runs, you will see performance that can not be matched by any other pump fuel. But, the entire vehicle needs to be properly set up for it, something manufacturers/EPA don't seem to understand. Or maybe they don't want you to know how well this fuel can work...
  3. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    5 or 6 different octane blends, diesel, E-10, E-15, E-85, leaded, unleaded, gas, gas-electric Hybrid, all electric. Global warming exists. No it doesn't. I see it all as just one big con game or a surplus of overly intelligent idiots who manage to collect paychecks for doing nothing definitive.

    Wonder what kind of car you could buy today that won't be obsolete or have a destroyed power plant 10 years from now? (and since a "low priced" car today costs more than I paid for my first house it better last 10 years) I'll keep my old 87 octane gas car until the fuel and automotive industries get their act together and settle on one thing that's as reliable as old fashioned gasoline. Couldn't care less about polluting the planet, because evidently the guys who make the big bucks don't care either, and they pollute more in a year than I do in a lifetime.

    Confuse the public enough and they'll buy anything or they'll give up and just start working closer to their home towns again. Result: they'll buy less fuel and fewer cars. (I've never owned a car for more than 4 years, and I used to average 100,000 miles a year. My current cars are now 10 & 12 years old and I've cut my driving to about 20,000 miles per year.)
  4. AMG

    AMG YF Moderator

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    There was a debate about how temperatures were measured since the stations over time came closer to "urban heat" and showed warmer temps. So the NOAA have put up a grid of new stations 10 years ago that should remain undisturbed. Now the first figures of the 10 year period are released, and guess what? The US of A got cooler...

    So now the scientists are giving up on measuring temperatures to find traces of global warming and they say we should look at the sea water rising instead..!

    They don´t know yet how the carbon dioxide is involved since it should affect surface temperatures and there it got cooler... but there has been warnings about an approaching ice age before, so why not blame our lifestyle for this too? Just invent some new taxes and all will be fine..:)
  5. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    And there you have it.:) Sometimes I'm really glad I have no kids or grandkids to bother me about how we messed up their world. The under 30's are on their own. (Still a bit ashamed of my generation though.:eek:, but they're rich so it's all OK)
  6. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    That pretty much sums up the EPA.
  7. brian eiland

    brian eiland Senior Member

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    Where are the Europeans sourcing their alcohol?

    What is the difference between E85 fuel verses 15% ethanol fuel ?
  8. brian eiland

    brian eiland Senior Member

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    couple of interesting postings on the subject from another forum....


  9. Chapstick

    Chapstick Member

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    The world doesn't start and end at the USA, and the world as a whole got hotter in the same period.

    This is neither true nor correct.

    Also wrong. The effect of CO2 is very well known.


    I wonder who taught you it was ok to misbehave as long as someone else was too? You don't need to be ashamed of your generation, as you've said you are, but you should be ashamed of yourself if you aren't doing the right thing.

    E85 is 85% ethanol.
  10. brian eiland

    brian eiland Senior Member

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    I guess I have been confused for years now. I thought the word ethanol referred to gasoline that had been diluted by alcohol. Looks like the word ethanol is just a new word for alcohol

    Ethanol - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    I believe this 'dilution' of our fuel began as a winter season anti-pollution program that was 'sold' to the public. It started out as just a 5-10% dilution with alcohol that was referred to as ethanol. That's where I developed the idea that this was the product ethanol. And then I read that they wanted to increase that percentage to 15% alcohol, which was to be really damaging to older vehicles.

    Plus when you think about it the oil companies are being allowed to sell us this diluted fuel that does NOT have the energy content of full strength petro fuel.

    WOW, now you tell me they want us to burn 85% alcohol. That is really ridiculous !!!!:eek:
  11. Chapstick

    Chapstick Member

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    Older than any of us ;)

    Because it's cheaper energy than petrol/gasoline. A tank of E10 means about a 3% drop in total energy in your tank, but the price to fill it could be 15% lower, for example.

    I don't think anyone's said that? If you mean me specifically, I haven't mentioned it.
  12. SomeTexan

    SomeTexan Member

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    They aren't trying to mandate e85 yet, but in some places it is avalible at the pump. Although I am not fond of the lower ethanol blends, e85 is awesome for performance. Many built turbo cars are setting up for e85 now, because it replaces 117 octane race fuels and performs better at considerably lower cost.
  13. AMG

    AMG YF Moderator

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    I don't like to start a thread about the global warming hype, but when you say I am wrong, you are only exposing your lack of knowledge. When the complete IPCC Fifth Assessment Report is out in October, I suggest you read it to get a better understanding of what the scientists really know and what they don't know. And as a warming up, (pun intended), you can Google for "the missing heat"...


    About the Missing Heat, I can inform that it is not to find in Sweden this Midsummer. My boats and summer cars are still in storage. This is the Stockholm temps right now;

    Attached Files:

  14. AMG

    AMG YF Moderator

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    In Sweden they have forced the Gas Stations to have it, or they must close. This has caused near all smaller taps on the countryside to close, which often included the last shop in the village. Resulting that people have to drive many miles to find any fuel or food, which of course is releasing even more CO2.

    The E85, by the way, may be good in a dragster, but not for mileage and if your tank is not taking you to the next tap, you rather use normal gasoline. Which is what people here do.
  15. Chapstick

    Chapstick Member

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    Are you sure?

    I'd say exactly the same about you. Scientific consensus on the effect of increased CO2 in the atmosphere is overwhelming. Only their lunatic fringe say otherwise.

    Have you read it already? ;)

    Until October, enjoy these figures from one of the three work groups contributing to that report:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Source: Fifth Assessment Report - Climate Change 2013

    EDIT: hmm, those images were supposed to appear in-line for easy viewing, but the IMG tag isn't working and I can't see a button for images when posting...
  16. AMG

    AMG YF Moderator

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    There is nothing such as a "scientific consensus" and yes, I have read what is interesting to me in the parts that are already published. As opposed to most people who only read parts of the SPM or in tabloids...
  17. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Science is fact...until profits are involved. Then it's gospel or junk depending on who's paying.
  18. SomeTexan

    SomeTexan Member

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    This is a myth, or only applicable on flex fuel engines. Try running c16 race fuel in a flex fuel vehicle, it will lose even more fuel mileage. It isn't a problem with the fuel, the vehicle isn't set up to take advantage of it. Fuel mileage is the same or better if the engine is built for e85. But, that means an engine needs to be 13-1 compression of more, or uses high boost (25+ psi) to use the octane. I know this to be true because I have built vehicles that run well on e85. I have a backhalved 82 Chevy c10 running a GM 6.0lq4 that has been bored and stroked to 408ci with a 90mm turbo. 8.7 second 1/4 mile, but 24 mpg to and from the track. My 71 Corvette has a 6.2l ls engine built at 13.4-1 compression, 734rwhp and 28 average mpg. I'm sure it could be better, but the car will fry the tires at 120mph, and self control tends to get ignored in those situations. I have built 23 cars set up on e85, and over 75 engines, all get better than stock mileage.
  19. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    I understand what you are saying. But you're talking about maintanence hungry vehicles, built with expensive parts, setup to run specifically on E85, no different than a full race engine that can only run on 116 octane race fuel. 99.9% of the vehicles out there are not built to run on E85 or even E90 fuel that the EPA and governments are forcing people to run in them. Not to mention it takes more energy to extract the alcohol from Corn (which is where the US is getting it from) than the energy you create from the ethanol. When E90 is put into your everyday daily driver, not only does it create issues with many different types of vehicles (boats, motorcycles, older cars etc.), gas milage suffers about the same as the percentage of ethanol in the fuel, so it's a loss loss for everyone.
  20. AMG

    AMG YF Moderator

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    This is what people have, they don't rebuild their family cars, they fill them up with gasoline instead and this is a fact. With ethanol they take 20-25% more on average than with gasoline and even if the cost with subsidies will be the same, people don't like to fill up all the time... Besides technical problems, like fuel pumps that lasts 50.000 km's instead of 200.000 as a common example...

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