That response has been discussed by more than a few people. Here's a question: Suppose that there had been serious injuries, and the pursuit had gone the same way, with the pursuers being blown off by every law enforcement agency that they called and flipped off by an occupant of the vessel. At what point does the law permit private citizens to take the necessary measures to stop another vessel?
Hi, I would say none. I would also say that if you boarded and forcibly detained a foreign flag vessel and it's occupants who are legally in the US you would be guilty of Piracy plus a few other things the State Attorney could dredge up. This may also apply to US Flag vessels. What is the law where you are if someone committing a felony comes at you and you fear for your life? It could be an interesting shootout from plastic boats.
I seriously doubt that I would consider boarding if it was me. Can flares be used as a warning if they are fired parallel to or in front of, but NOT at the vessel? At what point would manipulation of the Navigation Rules be considered impeding progress? For example, if you're crossing in front of him from his starboard side, disabled in the middle of the channel, etc? Again - This would be in the scenario of serious injuries, which (luckily!) did not occur. Is there a marine equivalent of Citizen's Arrest?
Everyone makes a mistake sometimes, and who knows what happened on board that day. Maybe the mate was at the helm while the Captain used the head, who knows. It is Highly illegal and a federal offense to fire off flares for a non-emergency situation.
Really, captain? Where did you find that in the US Code? You can shoot off white flares all day long if you want as long as you don't endanger someone. White flares are "practice" flares and can legitimately be used as an anti-collision signal. How the folks in other boats nearby interpret the use of one if you don't announce it beforehand might be problematic but it is hardly a federal offence. Surplus military flares are available from many sources in several colors. I would think the local fireworks laws would govern their use.
When we asked the local Coasties about using expired (red) flares as practice flares, they informed us that if the flares were fired horizontally in a safe area (best behind a tree line), they were fine with it - just don't fire them upwards. Don't know if that's "official" or just "local". Just wonder if you would get in REAL trouble for using them as warning devices, should all else fail...
Depends on what "them" is ... do you mean red flares? They are an emergency signal. Is your situation an emergency? If you consider your situation to be an emergency you can do anything you want with any resource available. Just like any action taken in "self defence" you had better be ready to defend your actions and those actions had better be seen by authorities as reasonable. We are moving into an area where this thread can go wildly off track. You can be in an emergency situation and not be aware of it, a professional can and might declare an emergency on your behalf. You might also panic and think you are in an emergency when you are perfectly safe. The art lies in knowing the difference.
For the record, Bombardier Inc. is a giant multinational making regional jet aircraft and is I believe, the largest manufacturer of high speed passenger rail cars and locomotives in the world. It operates in 60 countries and last year had sales of about 20 billion US dollars. It is publicly traded - I own shares - but does not have an "owner" I think the biggest positions are held by pension funds and mutual funds. It does not make Skidoos. BRP Recreational Products on the other hand is a privately held company with an owner or owners some of which are said to be descended from A. Bombardier who invented the Skidoo. They also make Seadoo, Evinrude and other well known products. While large it is nowhere as big as Bombardier Inc. and is a separate entity entirely. I doubt that the "owner" of Bombardier - since there isn't one - was involvoved in the incident. BRP is another matter but I simply do not know.
I should add that a quick glance at my last Annual Report reveals that there are two Bombardiers still on the 11 member board of Bombardier Inc. one in his own right and one representing the family foundation. BRP as far as I know is nothing but Bombardiers.
It is never legal to use deadly for to stop a fleeing suspect. There are of course other ways (most of which will put you on the wrong side of a lawsuit). That said arrogant SOB's should understand that there are those who just don't care.
Maybe it was foolish fantasy to expect the owner to do anything beyond the absolute minimum. All I can say is that I recieved several PM's and phone calls indicating that he is a "stand up" or "honorable" man. (Thank you to those who reached out, trying to help.) Maybe this is the case, and his legal team is standing in his way for reasons that make sense from their point of view. All I know is that I work for a man who would have handled this completely differently. He would have made the captain turn around, told his legal guys to go screw themselves, gone back to the marina, met with every one of the victims personally, and really cared that they be properly taken care of. By the time it was over, every one of the victims would have thought far more of him than if they had not been through the experience. Instead, we are left feeling strangely violated and abandoned, not only by the "SeaDoo for Dad" crowd, but also by Bombardier Recreational Products, who promised decisive action and by the USCG and local police, who seem to have simply vanished. I have no idea what my reaction might be should I ever encounter this vessel or it's owners. I hope that I never do. Frankly: I hope that they NEVER feel comfortable cruising the waters of the eastern seaboard; that they ALWAYS feel nervous about the stares from the docks and other boats, never knowing whether they are being admired or despised; and that they dread every boat that pulls up next to them and attempts to hail them. May they never be comfortable in an eastern port - they made themselves a pariah by their actions, and they will have to live with it. I'm disappointed and disgusted by the whole thing.
That post would sound so good read aloud at a meeting of their shareholders or posted outside the corporate offices for their employees to read.
I just saw them out here in Nantucket, and sorry to say they seemed to be enjoying themselves. Perhaps they will be heading back your way and you can catch up with them. In today's legal world what you are hoping for will never happen, no matter how much of a "stand up guy" the owner is. The minute he accepts responsability or acknowledges what has happened, he is wide open to being sued. Best of luck
A little something I've been watching this thread develop since day 1. I even followed it to another forum and watched it there for awhile too. I'll even say that the first day of the thread, I made a point of making some calls to find out where the boat was sitting. I then ran into them in Nantucket in early July and introduced myself to the captain. It may ease your pain a little to know that when I met him he was the NEW captain of the vessel. Perhaps those few ounces will go toward the pound of flesh you are Seeking (Pun intended)
Even a new Captain should have known better than to do what he did. The worst of it now is that law enforcement has given up. No one, not even the errant Captain, will be held accountable.
Cat, The way I read Ken's post is, the NEW as in replacement Captain. Perhaps speed racer is walking the docks? Steve
The captain should be enjoined with the owner in any civil action. His name should also be publicized so others know not to hire him. This is or should be a career ender.