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MTU 8v183

Discussion in 'Engines' started by SKATER28, Sep 16, 2020.

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  1. SKATER28

    SKATER28 New Member

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    Thanks for any input.

    Looking at a 1992 57' Tollycraft with 8v183 . Hr meters show 4200 and the starboard block was replaced last year.
    I have no past history with 8v183 and looking to hear the bad and the ugly. And good if there is any.

    Thanks
    Bryan
  2. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    I ran a yacht with them. We put about 700 hours on them within 14 months. They had 700 hours when the one motor grenaded on survey seatrial for my customer. It was majored......they ran good, smoke a little at cold start and slow speeds......smooth at cruise on good on fuel burn and pretty quiet engines.......but parts are EXPENSIVE.....we had to do exhaust manifold gaskets on one engine, $12,000. We had to do something else on one of them and that was uber expensive also around $16,000, I think it was turbo's, injectors and pump..............raw water pumps are around $4000 to rebuild, they do last a very long time, and they have a S/S impeller so no impellors to change.
  3. mapism

    mapism Senior Member

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    Which version, TE92 (657hp @ 2300) or TE93 (756hp @ 2400)?
    In a 1992 boat, I would guess the former, which is fully mechanical and better than the latter, in several ways.
    Just as an example, the whole heat exchanger is a bronze masterpiece in the 92, while they did some corner cutting and used aluminum in the 93.
    Good reliable engines, but as already mentioned, proper maintenance ain't cheap.
    Btw, as I recall the original raw water pump is bronze also internally, which is actually even better than s/steel.

    Out of curiousity, do you know why one block was replaced?
    These engines can be fully rebuilt, and I never heard of cracked blocks or whatever.
    Oh, and talking of rebuilding, be aware that the official MTU maintenance schedule states that their "1DS" rated engines (i.e. pleasure boat rating, which is true of both the 92 and 93 models) should go through "W6" echelon every 6000 hours or 8 years, whichever comes first. Where "W6" means complete overhaul, no less.

    Now, in practice not even MTU official dealers dare suggesting complete overhauls every 8 years, which in most pleasure boats means MUCH less than 6000 hours.
    But the equivalent schedule for "1A" rated engines (i.e. the unrestricted continuous versions of the same blocks, rated for only 2000 rpm and with a much lower output) is either 12000 hours or 18 years.
    And all MTU engineers I spoke with recommend to not mess too much with this timing, no matter how low the hours.

    In other words, also for the engine which was not replaced, even if still far from 6000 hours, a full overhaul is by now way overdue, after 28 years.
    Whoever didn't take the opportunity to overhaul also the other engine while replacing one, I can only guess that either was not properly advised, or had a limited budget.
    Either way, a BIG cost, to be considered in the negotiation.
    Good luck.
  4. SKATER28

    SKATER28 New Member

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    Thanks for the replies. Can you give me a rough est for the W6 service. I understand that there many different factors in any job but just a ball park would be much appreciated.
    As for hp the broker says 680hp . I will look for the info off the motor id plate.
    There was a rebuild plate from the Co. that did the rebuild. I will get that info also.

    Thanks
  5. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    I had a customer that had a cracked block. Recent service, replaced all injectors, injector pump etc. on 12v183 that was about 5 years old. Enroute to NY from FL, they stopped one night in Charleston, injector leaked and filled cylinder up, block cracked when they tried to start it. New engine was $250k.

    W6 service, if it's a complete overhaul....around $40k. But call an MTU dealer to confirm, access to the engine can add or subtract a decent amount of $$$.
  6. mapism

    mapism Senior Member

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    I would have guessed even more that $40k for the full overhaul, but it's quite likely that US prices are a bit more reasonable (or better said, less unreasonable...) than here.
    But unless the e/r accessibility is outstanding, I'd prefer to pull the engine out and have it done in a fully equipped shop.
    Working in better conditions can only give better results.
    Which is also the reason why I wouldn't have missed the opportunity of the other engine lifted for whatever reason.
    Nothing like an empty e/r to clean/check/fix everything!

    @Capt J: do you possibly remember if that V12 with the leaking injector was a TE92/1000 hp or a TE93/1150 hp?
    What I said for the V8 applies also to the V12: the earlier one had a much better reputation than the latter.
    After which, in fact, MTU phased out the 183 block completely.

    PS: the throttles can be a helpful hint: very likely mechanic with separate levers on the 92, and electronic on the 93.
  7. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    They were 1150 hp. Boat was a 2001 68' Azimut. I managed 2 of them that were 2 hull numbers apart, and ALL electrical and location of everything electrical was in totally different places. One of them, they built the joinery over all of the pull down ceiling panels!!!!!!
  8. SKATER28

    SKATER28 New Member

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    Thanks for all the great information.
    We pulled the trigger and bought the Tollycraft with the understanding that there would be repair need.
    Question
    Starboard Engine
    If coolant level is dropping in the tank when motor is not running where would it go.
    I do not see any exterior leaks.
    I do not see any oil residue in the coolant in the tank or bubbles and pressure from a blown head gasket. ?
    If that much water was leaking into the cylinder I would think the motor would hydro lock ?
    Intercooler could be leaking coolant in to the raw water side ? This could happen with out the motor running?
    If the exhaust manifolds where leaking wouldn't that go back to filling the cylinders with water? Also motor would need to be running right.
    Yes there is Coolant sheen in the water coming out of the starboard exhaust.
    Best way to pressure test the heat exchanger.
    Best way to check rest of cooling system for leaks.

    Thanks
    Bryan
  9. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    If coolant is dropping without the motor running it could be going 2 different places. You could have a bad heat exchanger and it's leaking into the saltwater side of the heat exchanger and overboard, shut the seacock and take the raw water hoses off of the heat exchanger, add coolant, get a pump and pump it up to 12 psi......look at/into saltwater side of heat exchanger and see if it's ending up there........or you could have a bad head gasket or cracked head and it's getting into a cylinder which can be absolutely catastrophic. You need to get a MTU mechanic that knows 183's out to check it.
  10. mapism

    mapism Senior Member

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    Are you positive the level is dropping while the engine is not running? The cooling circuit gets pressurized while the engines are running, so that's when any leak is more likely to materialize.
    And for the same reason, you actually can't check the level before and then right after running the engine, because you should wait till the engine is cooled down before opening the cap - and the level is affected by temperature anyway.

    In other words, in order to be sure that there's a leak with the engine static, you should check the level with the engine stone cold, and then re-check it after some days without ever turning the engine on in between.
    If upon this second check you see a lower level, then you definitely have a problem and you'd better involve an MTU engineer as CJ suggested.
  11. SKATER28

    SKATER28 New Member

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    Thanks for the response.
    I live in Washington and fly down on the weekends to work on the boat to get it ready to move from Marina Del Rey CA to Ensenada . The broker said the previous owner had a GUY that would work on the boat. I talked to the Tech and he knows very little about MTU's. I have asked around and Cat, Cummins, Volvo and even Mann I can find tech's . But I have yet to find a MTU tech let alone one who is a 8V183 Guru.
    If any one here knows of a place to look in the LA California area please let me know.
    Thanks
  12. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    From the MTU site there are 3 marine dealers within 30 miles of Los Angelas. Pacific Power Group, Harbor Diesel and Equipment, Brown engine inc.

    I wouldn't screw around with anyone to work on 183's that isn't factory trained on them. If you can't find an independent that's factory trained, then go to a dealer and spend the money. Mistakes are extremely costly on these engines. Also crutial that the engine belts are changed in pairs and in good condition, if they break at cruise, the motor overheats and grenades by the time the alarm goes off and you back the engine down to idle.

    https://www.mtu-solutions.com/eu/en/contact/sales-and-service-locator.html
  13. SKATER28

    SKATER28 New Member

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    Update.
    Called Pacific Power Group. The phone number gets you to Kent Wa. From there they dispatch a tech from San Diego Ca.
    When I called and setup the appointment I told the service writer that I was loosing coolant and could not see any external leak. I asked if the tech would have pressure checking equipment with him when he arrived on site. I was told yes. That he would be able to pressure check the cooling system and also have the tools to pull injector and bore scope the cylinders if needed. Also that this was his 8v183 guy.
    When the tech arived he did not have the large cap adaptor to pressure check the cooling system. He did pull some plugs out of the manifold and found water. On the ends of the manifolds there are inspection plates that he removed and there was standing water in the manifolds. At that time he determind that new manifolds are needed. Or at the least these manifolds pulled cleaned, re gasketed and pressure checked.
    That is where he stopped. 2 hrs total time on boat.
    My question is if there was a blown head gasket could the water collect in the manifolds. The oil shows no visual signs of water and the oil level is not over full.
    Last question is , what would be a reasonable labor hours to pull the manifolds and have them rebuilt and replaced.

    Thanks
    Bryan
  14. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    A head gasket may be leaking into a cylinder, then into the exhaust manifold (down hill).
    If your not getting a lil (or lots) of hydro lock when starting the engine, we should be able to skip this.

    Imagine the engine, just the engine standing in front of you, on a stand, with access to the whole thing, in the middle of a flat floor an a cherry picker available with all tools required in a tall chest rite next to you.
    Upon dissembley, it all comes apart with no supersizes, no frozen or rusted out bolts.
    Then I would guess 2 hours per log.

    Reassembly 3 hours per log. Oh, That is man hours. Yep-2 guys.

    Now, in your engine room, triple that plus.

    If your a penny pincher, the 183s were not for you.
  15. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    I paid $12k to do that job on a 58' Azimut about 5 years ago. To pull exhaust manifolds and install new gaskets, we were only leaking exhaust so nothing done to the heads. I believe it's an age thing with the 8v183s and gaskets drying out, becoming brittle, failing. Access was good on inbound side and very poor on outbound side.
  16. mapism

    mapism Senior Member

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    Don't forget what I said in post #3.
    Unless already done, those engines by now are supposed to be fully overhauled.
    So, manifolds are just one (arguably small) part of the work to be done, I'm afraid.

    That aside, just a couple of days ago while reorganizing my archives I came across an old review of your boat, which you might be interested to check out. I am attaching one page of it, but can't upload the complete article because it exceeds the forum size limits.
    I can email it to you if you're interested.

    Attached Files:

    • TC57.pdf
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  17. SKATER28

    SKATER28 New Member

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    Yes. Thanks that would be great.
    mod edit: email address removed
    I should have three Est. from Pacific Power Group by Tuesday.
    1 - Remove the manifolds inspect and rebuild , pressure test and reinstall. Labor and parts need to do the job.
    2- Pressure / leak down test each cylinder for a blown head gasket. ( test not fix )
    3- 2000 hr service. With a list of what this will entails.

    With the understanding that labor times will change depending on what the test shows.

    Thanks again for the information.
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 24, 2020
  18. mapism

    mapism Senior Member

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    Email sent.
  19. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    WHat was the reason the entire short block was replaced on the other engine? Was it water intrusion that caused the motor to hydrolock and split the block?

    The more I think about your situation and given the age and hours. Rather than spend the money to pull the exhaust manifolds and re-install them, I would bite the bullet, with 4200 hours and do a major overhaul and inspect all of those parts very very carefully. I think if you just do the manifolds, you're just spending good money after bad.
  20. SKATER28

    SKATER28 New Member

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    When you say major overhaul does that mean pull motor out and tear down to bare block with the liners removed. Than start from there with all new Piston kits, Bearings, Liners, Injectors, Manifolds ect.
    The only parts you reuse is the Block and Crankshaft, Rods.
    Rebuild and clean the Heads, Aftercooler, Heat exchanger and Raw water pump.
    Thanks