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MTU 12v183 Te93 Smoke?

Discussion in 'Engines' started by nelsboat, Jul 19, 2006.

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  1. nelsboat

    nelsboat New Member

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    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale, FL
    Smoking issues with MTU's 12V183 TE93.
    Great, powerful, reliable and economical but smoke so much (while cold) that my neighbors are complaining.
    Any comments?
    Thank you
    :confused:
  2. Loren Schweizer

    Loren Schweizer YF Associate Writer

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    (Cough! cough!)*wheeeeeze*

    Are they equipped with block heaters and, if so, are they working?

    Even in warmer waters, it seems all four-strokers are smokey on start-up.

    BTW, tell your neighbors that you are keeping the mosquito population down to a dull roar.
  3. Codger

    Codger YF Wisdom Dept.

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  4. electroengine

    electroengine New Member

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    [what kind of smoke your trouble.if black smoke your engine musn't be so powerfull..
  5. tri - star

    tri - star New Member

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    To nelsboat:
    Up here in the cool, cool north - block heaters are essential in the
    back country. In the praries, every CAR has an electric plug
    dangeling in front of the grill. Never mind the boats.
    Well I remember, in the winter - in the Yukon...First thing we did in the
    morning was take a blow torch to the heavy equipment........
  6. CaptTom

    CaptTom Senior Member

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    Yeah, get new neighbors. Lol
    Seriously, it does seem crazy that you would need a block heater in FL, but it may help. Did it happen more over the past several weeks while we had that cold snap here, or is it all the time? And is it equal amounts of smoke from both engines? Is there any type of cold-start feature that's not working correctly (like on the MAN's 1050's where only half the cylinders fire at idle to help reduce smoke as one reason)?
  7. CaptPKilbride

    CaptPKilbride Senior Member

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    Live in Maine, work in the Gulf of Mexico
    A block heater will help, even in FL.
    I run a pair of MAN D2842 LYE, which is essentially the same engine as your MTU's.
    We put in block heaters and have seen an tremendous difference in cold start up.
  8. Loren Schweizer

    Loren Schweizer YF Associate Writer

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    We have a 56 sportfisher out back with the MTU 12V183 TE93s, 2002 vintage, with 340 hr.s on them .
    No mosquitos near those docks when they light off.
  9. TSI AV

    TSI AV Senior Member

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    Estonia
    My 2 cents

    Hi,

    Some suggestions:

    1. Please check injectors. Can happen, that needle(s) are not tight, and fuel gets into cylinder(s) while engine is stopped. After start-up it takes some time to burn it...
    2. Keep tha engine as warm as possible during stand still. Actually, the more closer to running temperature, the better for engine.
    3. Check the valve clearance.
    4. Overhaul periods observed ? Could be great if You post some info, regarding maintanance.

    That's basic.

    Best regards,

    Andrei
  10. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    Hi,

    Good Advice there once again Andrei.

    I used to be Chief on a yacht with a pair of 16V396TB94 Engines rated at 3480 HP Each

    These were the biggest smokers I had and have ever seen if they were not as hot as the Jacket Water Heaters would get them. In fact they were very difficult to start if there had been no preheating usually requiring at least two cranking cycles to get the piston crowns warm enough to get the ball rolling.

    This boat was based at Fisher Island, Fla so the ambient temperature was never really low.
  11. sailandfish

    sailandfish Member

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    The yacht I worked on had one of those engines, same story, needed the block heater. And with 5000hrs even when heated it would still smoke everyone out. But then it was due for its rebuild. We got made fun of plenty at various docks for the extreme smoke, noise and turbulence from water jets.
  12. yotphix

    yotphix New Member

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    The 396's on our boat need to be preheated to at least 36 degrees celcius (I aim for 40) to have acceptable levels of smoke at startup. A previous engineer had the fire dept. called when he started without first warming! If the smoke is white, it is normal MTU cold startup smoke. Heaters, while not hard to retrofit, do draw about 20 amps per side. When we are on shorepower I need to flip flop the breakers, or turn off the AC to get both mains warm. Usually I start one side before I go to bed and the other when I wake if I know we will run them.
  13. Angelus

    Angelus New Member

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    On The Ball

    I would agree 100% With Andrei. I might have missed it in reading to fast but how many hours have they got on and the last FULL service including injectors to a specialist rather than a boat service centre. Valve guides clearences all important. Also, just a silly question , but what happens when the turbo kicks in , does the smoke go or not. There are many things it could be with out further input. PS (change your neighbors,,LOL)
  14. nelsboat

    nelsboat New Member

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    12v183 Te 93

    Thank you for all of your sugestions.
    I had Florida Detroit Diesel serviced those engines, they rebuilt the injector pumps, had the injectors adjusted at a higher pressure opening, timing etc.
    Yes they have block heaters, they help a lot but they draw 20 amps each, I don't use this boat that often, only have 1800 hours (1998).
    Great engine, powerful, dependable and economical, but when it is cold, (in Florida) Smoke to the point my neighbors’ run away when I decide to start up.
  15. DieselJoe

    DieselJoe New Member

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    Location:
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    Even when brand new, 12V183 high performance diesel engines produce some white exhaust smoke. The level of smoke could be determine if a problem exist by a qualified MTU technician.

    Check for fuel on the water surface coming from the exhaust pipe during idle operation. If fuel is noted, the possible cause for the abnormal condition could be due to faulty injectors, worn fuel injection pump seals, low cylinder compression (caused by worn or scored cylinder liners, broken piston rings and/or valve seats) also improper intake and/or exhaust rocker valve settings.

    If the amount of smoke is normal then do what I tell all my customers who have grumpy neighbors.

    Start and apply load to generator, once you are ready to leave the dock, start the engines and GO!!! There is no need to idle the engines for an extended period of time before you leave the dock. The only time you should allow the engines to warm-up is if you intend to advance the throttle soon after you depart.

    Good luck!

    :D
  16. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    I have run several sets of 12v183's one yacht had close to 3,000 hours, the others had 1,000 hours or less. One had as low as 400 hours. They all smoked considerably for the first ten minutes in comparison to common rail, Cat, or DDEC. Block heaters due draw a lot of amps, but will help the smoking quite a bit as your cold startup will not be quite as cold.

    I DO NOT agree with starting the engines and immediately leaving the dock. I have seen far too many diesel engines stall within 5 minutes after startup for various reasons (air in the fuel lines etc). I also like to see engine temps up, which also means oil temp is up as well before putting them in gear......I will not wait until the engines have reached 180 degrees......but will wait usually until they reach 140 degrees F.
  17. Mike Kas

    Mike Kas New Member

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    All, so new to the thread and i see there isn't any recent comments/activity going on, so i am going to cast out my "situation" and hope for some replies.

    So i am about to dive into the diesel powered yachting world going from twin gas offshore power boating. I am about to pull the trigger on a 63' Baia with twin MTU 12V 183 TE93's that have 2600 hours on them. The boat looks pristine in every way, however any information on what to look for (engine related) will be greatly appreciated. The owner of this vessel is one of three that he owns, the others being 100' plus different makes so i assuming and from the looks of the vessel he didn't go cheap on the maintenance. The 2600 hours has me a bit concerned and since there is no way of actually knowing how it was handled when stored, started and used should i take into consideration needing a rebuild in the somewhat near future? It was refit with Arneson surface drives in 2017 i'm told so the drives should not be an issue, however i don't want to buy something that will need a possible 60k each (as i read) rebuild.
  18. mapism

    mapism Member

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    I wouldn't be too concerned by the hours per se, but if the boat was built with those engines she must be 20 years old, or almost.
    And according to the official MTU maintenance echelon for 183 engines with 1DS rating (i.e. fast boats with low load factor, which is the version you are looking at), the so called "W6" maintenance is due either every 6000 hours or 8 years, whatever is reached first. The bad news is what "W6" means - I quote:
    "requires complete engine disassembly for repair/overhaul of all relevant parts, or the installation of an overhauled engine".
    Now, none of several MTU specialists I spoke with have ever rebuilt one of those engines after 8 years, unless well above also the 6000 hours mark.
    And all of them agree that the official MTU prescription is just for ass-covering purposes.
    That said, the maintenance echelon for the very same engine in the continuous duty flavour (whose output is a much more sedate 750hp/2000rpm, as opposed to 1150/2300 of the 93) states that "W6" is required every 12000 hours or 18 years - again, whatever comes first.
    And with respect to the 18 years deadline, the same MTU engineers that I previously mentioned agreed that it's better to not stretch it a lot...
  19. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    The boat should have come with Arneson surface drives. I used to manage/run/maintain a 59' Baia with 2-760HP 8v92 DDEC's which was underpowered. You needed a hope and a prayer and a lot of skill to get it on plane. Motors only went 980 hours before major overhauls. The hull needed to see 27 knots to stay on plane. The later ones came with the 12v183's and helped. I've heard the 63's are hard to get on plane as well and believe the hull is the same or very similar to the 59'. By their very nature, Arnesons are very hard on motors, but very very efficient when running on plane. Arnesons are propped utilizing half of the propeller at cruise speed/WOT. So at hull speeds you're running a lot more load and propeller than usual compared to a shaft boat. Have the engines surveyed thoroughly and go from there.
  20. Mike Kas

    Mike Kas New Member

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    Well i cant thank you enough for the quick and detailed reply. I feel better in one way, however the boat being a 1998 model year puts me at 22 years as this year is over. I am waiting for detailed service history from the owner of the vessel and not sure what what he has done in respect to maintenance. I can only hope and with much doubt that this "W6" service has been performed already. If this service has been been performed it will drastically affect my offer for the boat as i have to take this (as previously mentioned) 60k per motor rebuild expense into consideration. The way you described the "W6" service it seems somewhat justifiable yet excessive the $60k per motor cost i read. I am not ready to pull the plug on this deal and will hold off until i speak with someone that will tell me "yeah i have the same motor for over 20 years with over 2600 hours and still runs like new long as the regular maintenance was done" i wonder if there are a series of tests one diesel professional can perform to assure me the motor still has many years/hours of life left in her. Thank you!!