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More Women on the Bridge.

Discussion in 'Yacht Crews' started by Fishtigua, Feb 24, 2020.

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  1. Fishtigua

    Fishtigua Senior Member

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  2. Ken Bracewell

    Ken Bracewell Senior Member

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    Good for them. I have a deck department of 3, and 2 of them are women.
  3. Fishtigua

    Fishtigua Senior Member

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    Kenny, I've only had one 1st mate who was female in 30 years. That's it!!!!
  4. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    We employ 3 female captains and 1 female engineer. Add to that my wife who is a captain. We only employ 1 male captain and 1 male engineer. We have no deck hands as such as our stews do inside and deck duties. All four are female. I anticipate that the next captain and next engineer we hire will more likely be female than male.

    Some interesting data. Cal Maritime is 18% female, Massachusetts Maritime is 14%, Maine Maritime is 16%, SUNY is 12%, USMMA is 17%. While those percentages are low, they're much higher than an industry that a few years ago was less than 2% female.
  5. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    Glad to see that. Two comments on hiring females for these positions. First, as long as others discriminate against them, it will leave those who hire females an exceptional group to choose from. I've always found that in hiring those ignored by others you got a very good pool of job candidates and very good employees.

    Second, in jobs often considered to be very physical in nature, any job properly defined with good methods and practices should be equally handled by male or female. One should always use proper equipment and methods to avoid injuries on the job and that eliminates any exceptional strength or size requirements.
  6. RER

    RER Senior Member

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    That is simply untrue.
  7. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    OSHA and my history and experience say it is absolutely true. Good rules limit lifting to 50 pounds and beyond that use lifting tools or more people. Most injuries occur from either improper technique or trying to lift too much. I've been dealing with employee safety for decades and with jobs and techniques properly defined, you can reduce injuries to near zero. There is no reason on a boat to ever exceed those weights manually. Trying to "manhandle" things isn't the way I do things or allow them to be done.
  8. Fishtigua

    Fishtigua Senior Member

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    When I was a skinny teenager, 120 lbs wet through, I was the steward but still worked on deck or in the engineroom at down time. I could get to all the parts the fat engineers couldn't get to or scoot to the top of the mast. I worked smart as I wasn't very powerful, just thought about the job in hand.
  9. RER

    RER Senior Member

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    OSHA, Best Practices, employee safety and reducing injuries is not the same as claiming that "any job properly defined with good methods and practices should be equally handled by male or female" ...it just isn't.

    I'm not going to use the obvious NFL lineman or NBA basketball player I will keep it to boats. Take a 115 foot motor yacht in a DIY yard with crew dropping rudders and stabilizers, removing props and shafts and scrapping and painting the bottom. Some yachts and many sport boats on the west coast do this. No matter what practices are in place there is no way these jobs will be equally handled by male or female.

    If you want to talk about jobs where there is minimal physicality then yes.

    Now, females just like males should be considered for any job they are qualified for. Just like men. But that's not all jobs. Just like men. I know we live in a time when people are savaged for suggesting that male and female play a different role in nature. But nature always wins.
  10. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    Absolutely remains true using good safety practices. We're not talking football. We're not talking weight lifting. We're talking properly performed jobs where no individual should lift more than 50-60 pounds, regardless of their size or sex. If you have crew doing more, then you're using poor practices which I would never use. If I were to see a crew member or any other employee attempting to lift more by themselves then I'd reprimand them, male or female.
  11. Ken Bracewell

    Ken Bracewell Senior Member

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    Work SMART, rather than HARD
    I genuinely enjoy helping to remove and reinstall our running gear. And I NEVER lift any serious weight. Its' all done with lifting points, leverage, chain falls, lifting apparatus, and most importantly- BRAINS.

    The funny thing is that females generally get this more quickly than men. Young men often hurt themselves lifting, whereas old men figure out how to lift without pain.
  12. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    I hate to defer from brother RER, But if I was to know 40+ years ago that my health would be a wreak as today by miss handling just those 50-60 lb props and rudders bent over, under a boat,,, I would of done it differently than all by my self.

    40+ years ago I did not need a chain fall, pick that Detoit head up and walk off the boat, no problem.
    Now days I have a heavy crew and scold them for not lifting correctly. I have my self to offer as example if done incorrectly.
    BTW, I have a great heavy crew in Jax if needed.

    Now, This said, I am still called a male chauvinist pig, at times.
    I'll never understand this, I look down at everybody equally, at times. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
  13. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    I also have to ad;
    The old MMD program ensures that officers must be able to drag 50 lbs(?) of dead weight some distance.
    Before my abused hip replacement, I am glad I did not have to prove that to anybody.

    Somebody please update me, is this test still in the MMD requirements?
    This may be what RER was worried about.
  14. Fishtigua

    Fishtigua Senior Member

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    My Ex was an Olympic sailor and model, but she was still sent to the laundry and making beds. I bet she could dead-lift more weight than RER any day of the week.
  15. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    Well, we have a captain and engineer who could as well. Both were college athletes.
  16. Fishtigua

    Fishtigua Senior Member

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    It's still a bit worrying when your girlfriend has a 6-pack and you only have a, y'know, blob belly.
  17. RER

    RER Senior Member

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    First I’m happy for you that your ex is stronger than you are. I don’t have a belly and I am in excellent physical condition. Second you missed my point entirely. I don’t begrudge women their place in the wheel house but that has nothing to do with the fact that as a gender men are stronger than women. That is a fact. To suggest as olderboater did that a course of Best Practices levels the playing field in any jobs considered to be very physical in nature is simply not supported by reality.
  18. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    It may not be supported by your reality and bad practices, but it's been reality for me for decades. I've never had in any company I ran or owned any job that couldn't be done equally by females and males. Here is the NIOSH Lifting Equation manual.

    https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/docs/94-110/pdfs/94-110.pdf?id=10.26616/NIOSHPUB94110

    The 51 lbs is considered a weight that 75% of females and 90% of men can handle. They playing field for yacht captains and engineers and deck hands and stews is level for anyone engaged in good handling practices. If you intend to have someone lift 80 lbs of batteries by hand, then it's also level as its inappropriate for males and females. We have many examples. Simplest is loading and unloading trucks. Our standard allows lifting two boxes at a time. I remember 20 years ago a strong man at one facility who always carried three. We don't allow that today. That's not the job standard. Rolls of fabric are a heavy item. We require two persons to handle and move them. Yes, I see carpet installers all the time taking a roll of carpet and throwing it over their shoulder and walking in. Shouldn't be done but should be carried by two in most cases.

    There is nothing about being a yacht captain or an engineer that is beyond normal levels of physicality. We might load 50 cases of water on the boat. They are handled one case at a time. They weigh 30 pounds each if 24 bottles and 40 pounds if 32 bottles. Everyone carries cases from our largest captain to our smallest stew.

    The playing field I create is level. If you create one that isn't, then that's your problem.
  19. RER

    RER Senior Member

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    That's great. You'll get no argument from me there. More power to you. Had you said that in post #5 to begin with I would not have made a comment. But you didn't. Anyway, I don't want to keep going around in circles. Time to move on.
  20. cleanslate

    cleanslate Senior Member

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    I love it and never worry, mine kicks my transom from time to time! It's great!;)