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Marquis Sport yachts or similar

Discussion in 'Marquis Yacht' started by CaptCook, Dec 11, 2013.

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  1. MaxPower

    MaxPower Senior Member

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    At Sea ... Aahhh ...
    absolutely ... i've had more than one occasion when the dealers' tech guys led me through the diagnosis and solving of an issue over the phone ...
  2. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    We might not have to wait that long. You should see the rust that falls off of that thing.......
  3. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    Well, that's valuable but I was actually referring to the ability to get it serviced by people in the areas being cruised, the likelihood of finding those familiar and knowledgeable in many places. Now I would add your dealer's commitment to that as I would also how helpful the manufacturer or manufacturer's are. And parts. How common are the parts? How easy to get promptly. The worst thing is to find yourself stuck somewhere for a month because of difficulty in finding knowledgeable people or simply while waiting for some specialty parts.

    While it is far from the same thing and much has improved the last few years, the biggest criticism I ever heard of Volvo in lake boating was the waits that sometimes occurred for parts.
  4. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    Well, I've never even heard of a movement or effort to replace it. Perhaps because I'm not in that area. But everywhere else I've lived there is always talk about the older bridges and on major waterways talk about the lower fixed bridges. I think if it had auto traffic it would be quite a bit different. In fact, I wonder what legal entity owns it.
  5. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    It's HARD to get parts for Volvo's in Fort Lauderdale, let alone elsewhere. I've had to wait 4-6 weeks many times for Volvo parts. And, these were for popular motors....TAMD's KAMD's D5's etc......
  6. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    Sure can ruin a summer. Not saying we won't encounter parts problems but with Mans and Cats and MTU's we're hoping not to. You still know there will be places you may have to wait for a part to be shipped to you.

    Ultimately there are so many factors to weigh in a purchase and I don't criticize any choices one makes if they are informed choices and they've gone with what they feel is best for them. It's not a one size fits all world.
  7. CaptCook

    CaptCook New Member

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    So, CaptJ, you are not big fan of Volvo IPS. What about a similar Zeus setup with Cummins or CATs?

    There are a few articles I found that slightly favor Zeus, like the one at my favorite PMY mag called "IPS vs. Zeus: Which is Better?" I kind of agree. American engines should be easier to service locally and parts should be more readily available and less expensive considering the freight and exchange rates factored in.

    On another hand, many imported designs sold in the U.S. come with IPS pods that makes selection more difficult, at least for me.
  8. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    This is true, I'm just saying that sourcing Volvo parts is difficult a lot of times. Also with the Volvo's, I've had a few that were problem childs and incredibly hard to diagnose and fix an issue such as overheating. My first choice would be CAT in MOST applications, not all. In some boats other engines are a better fit and they run best with them. I do run MAN's as well as mtu's and others. The MAN common rails run good when they run, but are finnicky and have a lot of false sensor and alarm issues. Man also has designed several items that were wrong, and never recalled them and passed on the expense to the owner after the warranty was over. The high pressure fuel rails on many of the pre-common rails. The alarm monitoring boards/hour meter boards on the common rails. Both of those items would prematurely fail, they knew that, they never stepped up to the plate and recalled them. Parts are also pricey. You cannot beat CAT's simplicity (just look at the exterior of the motor itself and accessibility) and parts/dealer network.....and the dealers actually stock parts. Last trip I had to have a MAN common rail fuel pressure sensor (a relatively cheap part) overnighted to the SC dealer from Fort Laud. Getting MTU to warranty anything is like pulling teeth.
  9. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    I have nothing against Volvo's and like the IPS system, aside from the parts sourcing issue. I do think the pods are not worth the trouble in a 3 and 4 engine installation (diminishing returns).

    I am a little biased as I did work as a demo Captain for CMD one year at the Miami Boat Show as a demo Captain because Cabo demanded one of their factory approved Captains run the boat and I have a lot of hours of ringing them out and have gotten to know them intimately. As a demo captain I was instructed to do things I would never dream of doing to an owners boat and we had no issues whatsoever. I ran about 12 seatrials a day for 5 days straight. Take the wheel at cruise and turn it hard over, full throttle in reverse and steer until you almost flood the cockpit, etc etc..... And, I've run around a dozen different zues boats and only 3 IPS boats. However this is what I like over the Volvo system.

    I like how the autopilot comes with the zues and is integrated with the system. I like how the trim is integrated and part of the drive, and comes off instantly when you go to reverse or stop. I like that all fluids can be changed from inside the boat. I like the Cummins engines over the volvo, and also the warranty is handled much better than Volvo's at least here in the states. I really like how the exhaust can be routed out of the transom on a SF. I like the engine displays and information they give on the Zues system over the volvo system. I like how the propellors are rear facing. I really like how you can go from gears and steering and back and forth without hitting any buttons or accessing anything. They also run SMOOTH at cruise.

    On the Volvo's I prefer the Bronze propellors over the s/s on the Zues. The s/s tend to get growth rather quickly. A little growth on the propellors on POD boats REALLY slows them down.
  10. CaptCook

    CaptCook New Member

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    This is a very nice review. Thanks again.

    I just had another look at the Jarrett Bay 46 SF with C9 ad ZF pods. It actually is a great boats for me for many reasons:

    - custom-built quality
    - pods (at optimal cruise it should get a nice 36gph)
    - perfect size (not too big and not too small)
    - family-friendly layout (I got 2 kids)
    - lower helm would actually work when fishing short-handed
    - classic traditional trim is always attractive

    In comparison to production Viking 42SF (Cummins QSB55.9/ZF) this is a much better boat overall. What is your opinion?
  11. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    That's where the rub comes in. Nothing is ever clear cut in this. For instance, I prefer CAT's to MAN's and MTU's based on those I've talked to but only one of the boats I own or am looking at comes with CAT's.

    One the lake, before I got into larger boats on the coast, I faced the Volvo vs. Mercruiser choice as did nearly every buyer. First boat I owned was a Sea Ray so no choice to be made. Chose the boat, no choice of engine and drive. However, then I went to Cobalt. Both were offered with pretty much comparable performance and options. It was a difficult decision. We finally found ourselves leaning slightly to the Volvo and had twin 430's. Now we had zero problems. But we did service it regularly as suggested and we did take care of it, didn't run into sand bars or over limbs, used it year round, and had an excellent and knowledgeable dealer. We knew people who had issues with both brands but one person who had serious problems with the Volvo and getting parts. However, there's more even to that equation. He was dealing with a dealer who primarily sold Mercruisers. He had no trailer and they had his boat out of water so no way to move it. But finally just had them put it in the water and I towed him to my dealer. Amazingly, miraculously, after being without it's use for nearly 6 weeks, my dealer had him back on the water in a week. And that mysterious long awaited part? The dealer worked through Cobalt (even though the boat wasn't a Cobalt) and found it at another dealer, had it shipped by two day delivery. So many factors.

    Ultimately all engines can have issues. The right dealers, boat manufacturers, shipyards, care, all play a role. And sometimes the boat we want will dictate our engine choice. While it may not be our first choice, it doesn't mean it will be a bad choice. For instance, I feel much better about getting an IPS from a builder who does mostly IPS and a dealer who handles many IPS than a builder who just adds it as an option on a couple of boats and a dealer who has little experience. This discussion all started with Marquis. Well, they have about as much IPS experience as anyone. Contrast that with someone like Hinckley who was going to offer IPS, but may have backed away now that Hunt is their sister and has it. Suddenly, IPS in a boat designed for jets with a manufacturer who has been building all jets, who has shipyards that have been servicing jets. Far different story.
  12. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    My biggest concern with IPS or Zeus, would be if something happens while you are far a way from a dealer. Bend a wheel in the Bahamas for instance and any yard can swap the wheel, even the shaft as well as repair the rudder or strut if it s really bad. Same in the keys or just about anywhere.

    Damage a pod and it won't be as easy getting it fixed, at least in the near future.

    Same with all the controls, electronics, and gizmos... Great when it works and easy to fix if you don't go far from home. But again, if you loose that fancy electronic steering down in the Exumas, what are your options? Fly a tech from the states or limp back home?

    I m not sure the benefits are worth it. Maybe they are....
  13. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    His intended area of use I would think would play a huge part of the decision. There are areas where you might find some pretty good old school experience trained people to repair other systems but who would have no experience with IPS or Zeus. Just flying parts in may not be enough. Might have to fly a person in as well.
  14. CaptCook

    CaptCook New Member

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    That's a very good point. The problem is to know what dealer has the experience and what doesn't.

    In case of of SF market, not many dealers seem to have the experience b/c not many IPS or Zeus options are offered. ;)
  15. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    I would prefer the Zues package for a couple of reasons in that installation. I saw on a 38' Cabo that had some issues with the c9/zf pod package it had in it (unusual vibration). Turns out, the Carbon fiber jackshaft shredded while I was running it back from the Miami Show. But the problem was ZF and CAT kept playing punt the football back and forth as to who's responsibility the warranty claim was and who was going to fix it, while the customer was stuck in the middle before the shaft actually came apart. Also, the ZF system is close to the Zues system and does make some of the drive components for CMD, it's not nearly as refined in it's movements and operations as either Zues or IPS. Either Zues or IPS, you're dealing with one company (Cummins or Volvo) for any and all repairs and warranty claims.......In a traditional engine/gear straight shaft situation, the two products are clear cut and don't have a lot of intermingled electronics and such. Also, ZF just moved their parts distributorship out of the US, and closed the US warehouse, and all parts are being shipped from Italy now. I've been waiting for a wired ZF remote for 2 months now, and the entire kit fits in a small box.

    I wouldn't worry about a builder only installing pods in 1 or 2 models. Take Cabo for example, they built a mold just for the Zues hull. They then spent 400 hrs running the boat to program it's Zues electronic program for power, turning radius, maximum HP for the joystick and all of that. All they built were 40' Sf and 40' express with Zues. BUT, they did a REALLY good job of getting the Zues system dialed in on that boat. I've seen other installations, one of the boats you brought up in pod SF you're interested in from a reputable builder, that you spend 30 seconds looking at the horizon while it gets on plane with IPS.

    Meanwhile, I had a friend who was overseeing one of those 43' Tiara's with the ZF joystick with straight shafts/bow thruster......JMF system? ZF spent 3 weeks- a month trying to get the boat right. Tiara had installed this very large hydraulic thruster for the system. It never did maneuver right, the bow thruster made a HUGE racket through the entire boat, and the owner never was satisfied with it. My advice- Either learn how to Captain your boat like you're supposed......and/or go with a pod system.

    Also, definately do not go with any pod system mounted on the same angle as the V. They handle REALLY bad at speed. You want the pods totally verticle. Jarrett Bay builds a good boat, they've been dealing with pod installations a while now, and they've actually stepped up to the plate and have found ways to maximize interior space gained from the pods.
  16. twnich

    twnich Member

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    Huh?

    I'm in Tampa. I have Volvo D6/IPS drives and I have never had to wait more than a couple days for parts, and that includes an entire upper gearbox. (And I could have had that shipped overnite if I wanted to.) Common parts are in inventory at the local Volvo shop.

    It's not like Volvo engines are a rarity here in Florida.
  17. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    I think it's a matter of degrees. It's not that you always have problems with Volvo parts and never have them with others, it's just some difference from my experience on fresh water and from the experience of many I've talked to here. Even with CAT who most of us like a great deal you will occasionally have difficulty with a very old engine parts. The part my friend had to wait for was one the dealer said he'd never previously seen go bad and he was a high volume Volvo dealer. But while it didn't affect driving it, we've waited a month for a glove box door on a car before.
  18. RUSSLAND

    RUSSLAND New Member

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    I do not want to put any bias to your opinion, BUT-do check if the visibility from the lower helm (in case it is SportBridge) or just the helm (in case she is Coupe) is OK for you. All these series, I mean SB and Coupe were designed by much lauded Italian design bureau Nuvolari-Lenard, and they appear quite attractive once seen from outside, but inside....You have better visibility from WWII era tank than from the helm of Marquis. Can be unsafe and takes out all the fun of owning the boat.
  19. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    I had to wait 6 weeks for a turbo elbow for a TAMD recently, none in stock it had to be made in Sweden. I had to search the entire country for an end cap for a 3 year old D5 heat exchanger. Since Volvo in their infinite wisdom used plastic end caps the first 2 years and they all started leaking, yet never recalled them but did redesign them in Bronze. I had to wait forever for a heat exchanger for another one, I think that one was a kamd. And a few years back NOBODY in South Florida had any secondary fuel filters for your D6 and they took a week to get. Yeah, soft parts are usually available. But hard parts can take 4 years and a forever to get a lot of times with Volvo.
  20. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    I agree, I ran a 42' Express with IPS a month or two ago and visibility getting onto plane was non existent. Visibility in general had a lot of things in the way.