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Marquis Sport yachts or similar

Discussion in 'Marquis Yacht' started by CaptCook, Dec 11, 2013.

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  1. CaptCook

    CaptCook New Member

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    Druing the last boat show (St Pete) I was really impressed by the looks, design, layout and quality of Marquis 650 Sport Yacht.

    I see there are also Marquis 500 and 420 Sport Bridges that are quite impressive. 420 would probably be the most I could afford.

    What are the comparable models of M/Y, say around 50', that are similarly built and priced?

    Appreciate any feedback or unbiased opinion.
  2. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    Early in our search we looked and evaluated them for primarily a loop boat but perhaps some coastal cruising. There were things we loved, like the design and the IPS. As to quality and construction we put them in our minds as a Sea Ray competitor. However, styling wise and even amenities we put them as distinctly different. Performance and economy with the IPS seemed outstanding. We really loved the boats for certain uses. Now for your sportsfishing, didn't see them in that area.

    Now, why didn't we look further? Genmar. Irwin Jacobs. As with most bankruptcies a lot of people got burned. Of course Irwin Jacobs blamed the lenders for the bankruptcy. You see that one a lot on the daytime court shows. It's not my fault. He kept harassing me about paying the money back I borrowed. And out of it all, somehow Jacobs ended up with Larson, Carver, and Marquis for an exceptionally low price. Meanwhile there were tons of warrantees that became scrap paper. Actually I don't think probably as many on Carver and Marquis as on the bass boats like Ranger. But still, I'm a believer in "Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. That's just me personally. Marquis may very well survive and be quite successful. They have done a lot of things to keep the plant open and going like industrial products and now Van Dutch production.

    Guess it's my business background that I do look at who I'm dealing with and history. And in this case that overruled my attraction to the boats.
  3. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    All opinions are biased. All include certain parts objectivity and certain parts subjectivity. Hopefully I was in my opinion open as to what my bias's are.
  4. CaptCook

    CaptCook New Member

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    You mentioned Sea Ray. I looked and found 510 Fly. It does look very similar and comes with Zeus drives (Skyhook and all) as an option. I'm adding it to my list. Thanks.
  5. RB480

    RB480 Senior Member

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    Carver and Marquis are now owned by a completely separate entity than Irwin (For about 3 years now) and coming out with new boats annually. There are a TON of them in my area and mostly all owners are extremely satisfied, the dealers are the people who take care of the warranty work and then submit the claim to Marquis, so far everyone that I know has been made whole.

    Van Dutch is not being built by Carver or Marquis, they are built at the Tiara plant in Holland, MI.
  6. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    Irwin Jacobs is one of the owners of the new entity and the managing owner I believe. The other owner who infused cash is John Paul DeJoria.

    Van Dutch just announced the move to the Marquis plant. The deal with S2/Tiara didn't work out. Information in this industry becomes outdated rather rapidly.

    And I love a lot of things about the Marquis boats. Glad they're doing well in your area. I'd like to hear from some using them in coastal areas as well.
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2013
  7. RB480

    RB480 Senior Member

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    I actually just started googling around after I posted that and was going to comment on the move, I believe it does seem like a better fit for Vandutch.

    I had heard other rumblings about Irwin as well, not sure what to think of that one.
  8. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    Searay is a far better quality boat. Marquis electrical is not very good and out of 3 I've run, 2 have had major fire causing electrical issues. Cabinet hardware, exterior fabrics and hardware are low quality. It's a nicely finished boat on the outside to the naked eye. Quality below what meets the eye is sorely lacking.
  9. Mark Woglom

    Mark Woglom Senior Member

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    I looked at the 630 Sport Yacht when it was first introduced. My wife liked the layout of the lower deck, and we thought the layout of the salon was pretty good. That said, based upon a brief viewing, I didn't get the sense that the systems or workmanship were particularly robust.

    For me, a significant concern was the curved deck. The curve is incorporated into the deck walkway, and it must have 5 or 10 degrees of slope as you walk aft, and that curve terminates in a step. Further, the rail is only about mid shin height from deck to rail. In my opinion, the end result is unsafe. Wet decks, rough seas, or a few too may cocktails have the potential to get somebody hurt. In my opinion, it's an example of a builder putting form before function.

    I'm always hesitant to "rank" a boat in terms of build quality. Things that are important to a yacht captain, might be less important to somebody who primarily entertains dockside. People buy all sorts of boats, and most people are happy with their purchase. The trick is to find the right boat for the way you use it.

    That said, the more I boat, the more I gravitate towards boats with systems that are robust, simple, accessible, and readily available. I'm starting to shy away from "gimmicky", or "custom", characteristics (I see the Marquis retractable roof in this light). Ease of maintenance, and systems reliability, have become more of a priority.

    Why? Because I run my own boat, move it around a lot, and have it serviced by others. Cruising is a lot less stressful when you can get the boat fixed/serviced, wherever you might be. Regardless of "quality", stuff breaks on big boats, and they take a lot of maintenance. (Heck, just off the top of my head, I can think of over 40 different filters that need regular maintenance on my boat)

    If I had a captain running/maintaining my boat, or I was primarily into entertaining dockside, I might feel differently.
  10. CaptCook

    CaptCook New Member

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    olderboater and Mark Woglom (Azimut 55?), what boats did you end up with after doing your recent research?
  11. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    For the boat that I was considering the Marquis for, I haven't finalized anything but it looks like it will be a Hatteras 60MY. Styling wise doesn't compare to the Marquis, but just quality and functionality sold us. We've chartered one and loved it other than the fact it didn't have a lower helm. We do want a lower helm in addition to the bridge.
  12. CaptCook

    CaptCook New Member

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    Well, now I have to compare Hatteras 60 M/Y to Azimut 55. :)

    Basically, I'm making a serious list of M/Y, YF and SF to see at the next shows in Miami and Palm Beach. If you have anyother suggestions it would be great.

    Aside from fishability taht is not always possible with straight M/Y (forward helm), I'm looking for the following (in no particular order):

    - comfortable covered flybridge (one upper helm is enough)
    - spacious, open and smart main deck layout with open cockpit
    - comfortable and family-friendly 2-3 stateroom/2 head accomodations
    - fuel-efficient pod drives (IPS or Zeus)
    - hard-bottom dingy is a must for the island trips
    - solid quality if always welcome

    I have heard from other captains and owners that any M/Y can be fished from. I don't see why not and ability to back down on a big fish would be great. Am I missing anything?
  13. CaptCook

    CaptCook New Member

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    This Searay 560 Sedan does look like SF with aft helm.

    Attached Files:

  14. Mark Woglom

    Mark Woglom Senior Member

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    I bought a 2005 Lazzara 68. Things I like:

    1. Robust systems/components such as pumps, panels, rails, cleats, etc.
    2. Hardtop with enclosure (never thought I'd want an enclosure, but wouldn't go back)
    3. Pretty good access to almost all systems ... awesome engine room clearances.
    4. 1,280 gallons of fuel. Easy 280 mile (13 -14 hour) range, with about 300 gallons in reserve ... not too many will do that.
    5. Crew cabin forward, with decent appointments (so readily usable by guests)
    6. Bath/shower in every stateroom (4)
    7. Dayhead on main deck
    8. Lower helm ... nice when it's real cold, real hot, or raining. (windshield wipers!)
    9. Only 4' draft, nice for ICW trips.
    10. Heavy, 100K lbs, so feels solid/quiet at sea.
    11. Stabilizers ... don't think I'd want this boat without 'em.
    12. Independant air handlers and HVAC controls in each stateroom
    13. US build, so US components, for the most part.
    14. Big galley up, with standard size, US appliances.
    15. Easy engine room access through transom door, but safe/2nd access in cockpit for "at sea" use.
    16. Dinghy is in garage, so it's not visible and out of the weather.

    Things I don't like:

    1. Dinghy is in garage, so it's gotta be a jet, and you can't launch it if the stern is tight to the dock.
    2. Sick of maintaining teak, would prefer no teak like Hatt MY.
    3. Gelcoat, would prefer paint like Hatt. A portion of my boat gets waxed every week to keep up with it!
    4. It has a customized/computerized system control panel called ISIS, and it sets off an alarm for stuff that's not too alarming. I'd prefer simpler controls/alarms.
    5. Galley is not open to salon
    6. Poor visibility from the flybridge while docking. I'd prefer controls on the side, with visibility down the companionway to the stern. I have stern controls, but it means entering a port with good visibility from the flybridge, and then running down to the lower controls to back in, at which point I can't see the bow. I have a yacht controller, which I sometimes use when it is just my wife and I ... particularly helpful to be able to help her with lines and keep 'er tight against the dock)
    7. Formed fiberglass helm station on the flybridge .... means you can't readily buy new electronics for some components. I just did a complete new electronics package, and I'm stuck with the old round NEMA 0183 guages in the formed fiberglass openings.
    8. Doesn't sit at anchor well. Rides back and forth in the breeze. Tried all sorts of contraptions. (suggestions welcomed!) Also don't like an all chain rode. Would prefer dual windlass system.
    8. It's a lotta boat for a husband and wife team. We were recently in Bimini, at a dock, with sustained 35-40 knot winds. I literally could have walked across the dock lines, they were so taught. Thrusters wouldn't budge the boat. If those lines ever let go, we were going to have a problem on our hands. Wouldn't even think of trying to bring it into the dock in those conditions.

    What would I look at in this size range if I were buying new:

    1. Hatt 60 M/Y
    2. Princess 60 or 64
    3. Lazzara 64
    4. Maybe Sunseeker

    That said, somebody would have to make a heck of a sales pitch to get me to buy new. I've heard nightmares about new build problems, including some from very reputable builders. I'd prefer somebody else iron out the wrinkles, and eat the depreciation.
  15. CaptCook

    CaptCook New Member

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    Excellent review. Advice like that saves other people lots of money and time. And the last paragraph goes pretty much in sinc with my philosophy.
  16. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    Just a couple of comments on the Hatteras versus your list. Flybridge and upper helm are excellent. Main deck layout great, but cockpit probably an issue for you. It's covered plus with the transom and curved sofa (sofa could be omitted) not set up well for fishing from the cockpit. Comfortable and family friendly. 3 Stateroom, 2 head with excellent space in master and VIP. Optional crew cabin, which even if not used for crew can come in handy. Definitely fails on fuel efficient pod drives. At cruising of 21 knots uses 3.1 gpnm. However, at displacement or near displacement speeds not too bad. At 10 knots about 1.2 gpnm. At 7 knots about .85 gmpn. Dinghy would be your choice, davit on bridge.

    Biggest drawback is time to build if you don't want the standard version. If you want it, then last I knew several were available.

    Adding to your layout point, we're strong proponents of galleys up. In our Riva, because it's a coupe, that's not possible and while it's fine for short trips, for regular long range cruising we'd not like it. Now, personally tried a Hatteras without the lower helm which is the way they sell the vast majority and really disliked that aspect. Like having a helm adjacent to galley and, also, not as far from head as upper helm is. We love using the bridge in good weather and conditions but times we just personally like the lower helm. But we are in a small minority of purchasers.

    I'd also put draft as important. Our goal was to stay under 5' and the Hatteras 60MY is 4'6", but 4' would be even better for any inland and river cruising. Then for us since we do intend to do the loop with it, height clearance became an issue and that's where we're having to make a modification and probably eliminates the fully enclosed bridge as an option.

    You mentioned fuel economy but combined with that I'd look at range. So many boats in this range have very limited fuel capacity.

    Now I don't disagree with you on the pods and efficiencies. That and the time to build are two things still giving us some reservations. But then all boats are compromises so it's a matter of the ones you can best live with.
  17. CaptCook

    CaptCook New Member

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    I kinda agree with your observation regarding lower helm. It can be very useful when you are short handed and/or want to stay closer to your family. Plus for control freaks like myself, it's nice to see what's going on and have controls handy even at rest.

    As for fuel-efficiency of pods it really depends on the size of the boat. It's probably more noticeable with boats unless 50' in size. I really like Volvo IPS and Cummins/ZF drives. Otherwise, pods have more benefits like saving space, maneuverability, making docking much easier, staying in place (Skyhook), etc. One either have to embrace it or not. I love new technology and was never disappointed.

    Very curious to hear opinions about claims made by Slane Marine offering SF with Volvo Penta 3.

    http://slanemarine.com/slane62/
  18. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    As they increase engine size in pods the economy will probably carry to larger boats. Some of the other benefits are rapidly being matched by systems on non pod boats. Space is the interesting one. Do you really pick up space or just change where the space is?

    As to new technology, I did hear of problems on some of the early pods as you'd expect largely since they were knew to the people working on them. However, I'd say now they're more proven than new. I embrace new technology but never want to be first. So I wouldn't have bought the first pods sold, but now I wouldn't hesitate.

    I'll be very interested in following your search as other than the fishing we're looking for very similar deliverables.
  19. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    You know, I see sooooo many owners concerned about buying POD boats. But the problem is, they're never going to run them enough for the fuel efficiency to outweigh the cost of maintanence and complexity. Not to mention they're effected greatly by not having clean drives and not barnacles on the props and drive. Just the amount of electrical wiring and computer boxes and everything else is mind boggling when you really look at the package. Then if that's not enough having to maintain 3 or 4 engines/drives on top of it all on the larger boats. I've never seen the extra space they create utilized decently by hardly anyone except a 50' F+S I was on with IPS. In a twin engine application they make a lot of sense if the boats going to be used, and not in too far away places. Once you get into 3 or 4 pods you really get into diminishing returns in fuel efficiency and running costs.
  20. MaxPower

    MaxPower Senior Member

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    At Sea ... Aahhh ...
    I would certainly factor in dealer support when buying a boat ...

    In this part of the world, the Marquis dealer is probably one of the most arrogant individuals I have ever met ... as such, would never buy anything from him ... at any price ...

    just my $0.02 ...