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Marlow 65' seatrial vibration

Discussion in 'Marlow Yacht' started by bayoubud, Mar 8, 2017.

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  1. RER

    RER Senior Member

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    I don't know who it is but yes in a licensed state if so that broker has a duty to disclose.

    In my brevity what I meant to say was if there's more than the typical concern about the condition of the boat then a sea trial before inspections is a reasonable buyer contingency.

    In this case I can only determine based on the posts I've read that the buyer was aware of enough to have gone that route. If the broker pushed not to then he did harm to the buyer. If the buyer made the decision to move forward despite what was disclosed to him and/or what he discovered himself then it's his baby. And sometimes they do.
  2. JWY

    JWY Senior Member

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    I put the onus of sea trial on the seller. I advise, and if need be insist, that the owner or captain take the boat out for a run, including WOT, 3 or 4 days before the survey/sea trial date. That way, anything that "pops" has time to be repaired and cleaned up. Also, should something go wrong on survey, we will know that all was in good operating order a few days prior..or at least will be able to advise what might not have been fixed assuming that particular finding doesn't impede on the sea trial. When a boat is under contract, the price of a captain or fuel or wash down for a one hour run, call it a half day, should be insignificant. It's foolish for the seller and disrespectful to the buyer to not have a trial run ahead of sea trial and survey.
  3. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    I agree, but sometimes stuff just happens. I managed/maintained a 62' Sunseeker predator 2007 from 2011 or 12 to currently. Boat was maintained impeccably and with an open checkbook. We had just Awlgripped the hull, stripped the bottom and re-barrier coated it and painted it, everything always serviced on time. We just ran from Fort Lauderdale to Nassau with no issues. Then did a week through the Exumas from Nassau to Highbourne to Staniel and back to Nassau with the owners and again NO issues. Owners flew out, mate flew in. The boat NEVER has issues aside from routine maintenance and something minor pop up once in a blue moon.

    We sat in Nassau for 2 days waiting on weather.....the morning we're going to leave, we wake up at 5am to the high water alarm going off. Sunseeker mounts 2 bilge pumps in every location, the normal one, and the emergency one 6-8" higher than the normal one. When the higher bilge pump comes on, it trips the high water alarm also. The a/c discharge nipple blew a hole in it.....it was spraying a good amount of water into the forward bilge, lower bilge pump burned up.....The mate and I fix both items prior to leaving. We leave, while on the bank I use the owners stateroom head because we're at cruise (29 knots) and it's easier than the guest near the bow(mind you, they've been using it a week with no issues), the fill solenoid sticks on, it overflows, floods the owners stateroom floor with 6" water which trips the GFCI for the entire boat..... slow down assess the situation, shut the breaker off to outlets, reset GFCI, shut off freshwater pump, had Shannon from Ronnie's carpet meet me at the dock and remove the carpet and padding from the owners stateroom as soon as we hit the dock in Pompano and vaccuum up all of the water.........I fix everything.

    Onto the survey and seatrial 2 weeks later. The hull survey was impeccable, only 1 item was on it which we disclosed, the electric grill did not work (we never cooked on the boat). The faux teak on the aft deck had a bubble in it, which was scheduled for warranty repair because it was just installed 2 months prior. Not a single other item. This was in 2014.

    On survey day, As soon as I started increasing the throttle going out of Hillsboro Inlet, the stainless upright support for the exhaust broke the weld and the rod fell over........ then at full throttle the stbd engine [port side exhaust gasket started leaking exhaust between the spacer and cylinder heads. And the same engine also had an alarm code pop up for the fresh water pump pressure sender on the way in....3 issues pop up ALL within an hour that were never there before...We deducted $10k from the price for all of the items. The buyer fixed all of it, and I still manage the vessel.
  4. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    At the end of the market I am most familiar with a survey for sale involves a thorough inspection of the vessel and its systems and a sea trial during which a list of defects and or recommendations is produced which goes to the person who paid for the survey and the negotiations begin.
  5. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    OR, if the fixes or inherent problems of the vessel are above and beyond what the buyer is willing to accept, he rejects the deal. I've had it happen on 2 yachts for a buyer, one was major cavitation/vibration issues on a Lazzara (as well as a laundry list of other items), and the other was a water leak on a Hatteras that caused Mold to be found.
  6. bayoubud

    bayoubud Senior Member

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    That is exactly what happened except for the detailed survey that K1W1 mentioned. The written survey report I received was 8 whole pages! Which was declared worthless. After having a conversation with the surveyor he actually gave me a refund. My whole point about this is if you are advertising a boat for sale and making claims about condition it should be accurate and kept up to date and during a personal inspection if making claims that all is well, serviced, and ready to cruise anywhere then it needs to measure up if a buyer is going to spend $$$$ to survey the boat based on information coming from broker/owner. In contrast, I just did a personal inspection on another pilothouse. The broker gave me a list of all the maintenance and upgrades over the last 3 years with an invoice #'s for reference and a week earlier had completed a brokerage-sea trial!! Exactly the same as JWY 's post above. Dang, I had to make an offer!!
  7. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    Don't believe everything in the advert. Do your own due diligence and get everything checked that you can
  8. bayoubud

    bayoubud Senior Member

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    For sure......
  9. chesapeake46

    chesapeake46 Senior Member

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    And don't fall in love with it before hand.
  10. bayoubud

    bayoubud Senior Member

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    I didn't, but the owner is! lol
  11. bayoubud

    bayoubud Senior Member

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    Well, time for final update. We rejected the boat for obvious reasons. Funny how Marlow Marine Sales , Inc. attitude changed from that point. Had to call and email several times plus required to fill out a "refund application" to get our deposit returned. They also deducted an exorbitant hull survey haul out fee that we protested and ask for a refund which was refused. What an insulting process that took over two weeks! Have an email copy to them from the owner requesting the boat be hauled out and specific repairs and cleaning plus it sat blocked three days until hull survey. The owner, lives in NY, was willing to do what was needed to have a good sea trial but had no idea the condition of the boat and neither did Marlow. We consider Marlow Marine Sales, Inc. an arrogant group that misrepresented this listing to us and had no idea the condition of this boat that sat at their dock under their care for over two years and was not ready for a sea trial. After the "Marlow" experience we would not own one of their boats because of maybe having to deal exclusively with them on the known problematic designs of their boats. I consider Marlow's nothing more than a pretty boat that looks flashy at the dock ( if maintained properly.)
  12. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    So one of the lessons learned is to know who you're dealing with. Hard to do some times and sometimes no choice. However, I knew what was going on the moment you posted and the story they gave wasn't credible to start with. To know the true history of that boat would be interesting. My bet is that it gave problems from the start and owner couldn't take anymore.

    Now you know why I would never order a new Marlow and only consider a used after a complete survey and one not being sold by them.

    As to problematic designs, the real problem is that no two boats seem to be the same. Now, sometimes it's a design flaw impacting them all but they make "improvements" all the time so that the one built today of the same model as last year might not perform the same. Better or worse, depending on whether it really did improve or not. There are people who have had Marlow's they loved. Then there are those who have taken legal action.
  13. bayoubud

    bayoubud Senior Member

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    ob, you had this figured out from the beginning. My wife loves Marlow's which prompted us to look at one. They are not really my type of boat. Well, you know the rest of the story. Your right, I would bet the problems with this particular boat was a well guarded secret since birth. The Marlow broker on sea trial made that comment it had underwater exhaust and for us to expect vibration! Are you kidding me! I'm sure there are happy Marlow owners, or they would be out of business. Last I checked there were a lot of them for sale as to the number built. We should have inquired here before getting to sea trial. Actually, we are back looking at made in America SF's which is much more familiar to us.
  14. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    There are plenty of well built boats out there. There are even good Marlows but one back to them so soon made me uneasy from the start. The 57 and 61 are great loop boats if no issues. That vibration didn't just happen now. The problems also have nothing to do with what country it was built in.

    Good luck with your pursuit. Understand this that whatever this experience cost you, the money spent not buying the boat is minor compared to that it could have cost you had you bought it.
  15. bayoubud

    bayoubud Senior Member

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    Not going to try and find a good Marlow. They had their chance. Thanks, that last comment sums it up. It wasn't as much the money as the way we were treated. I'm over it, very glad not to be maintaining that dark blue hull, teak, and chasing vibrations. :D
  16. Marmot

    Marmot Senior Member

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    After spending a great deal of owner's money trying to diagnose and cure vibration issues on a larger version, the consensus of the team of naval architect, propeller experts, vibration analysts, and experts in shaft fitting and service was that the design might look nice but it was an operational failure.

    Cavitation created by the skegs, close proximity of the props to the hull, and poor flow from the prop over the rudder lead to problems with the hull, prop, and rudder and very rapid wear of the rudder bearings (along with very poor linkage fitting) created even more vibration. The noise created by this made the "crew quarters" untenable underway.

    The old saying about beauty being skin deep certainly applies.
  17. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    My feelings precisely and appreciate the confirmation, Marmot. The boat in question had a design issue from the day it was sold new. They could do nothing about it. They knew about it. Now they're trying to resell it. They have full knowledge it's got problems that are not correctable. This is half genius, half mad scientist at work, always trying some new "better" idea and it often doesn't work out.
  18. bayoubud

    bayoubud Senior Member

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    I hear you Marmot. When first seeing a Marlow in the yard I was impressed twin keels and question why more builders are not doing the same thing. After discussions here it is obvious there are problems with their design. The port cutlass was worn badly and had some vibration and was replaced about two years earlier which told me there must be some misalignment. The stb engine was jerking around on the mounts at certain speeds which I think was exhaust getting into the prop. You mentioned the Capt quarters, how about the head (they call it the throne) built over the rudders, steering, and trim tabs with very little access to any. Also, speaking of beauty being skin deep, the heat effect of the dark blue hull paint has on the faring cracking at all cut-outs on the hull for inserts and transom/deck boarding doors was noticeable on all. Not to mention possible damage to the lamination. There were a number of other issues on the boat that were questionable. This was hull #3, they were still experimenting. If an owner is having these problems it is very likely a buyer will not hear about it. I did not have a good hull surveyor on this boat and numerous items were not acknowledged. Had I been a newbie, I would have bought a "pig in a poke."
  19. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    Did you let the salesman recommend the surveyor?
  20. Marmot

    Marmot Senior Member

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    The only thing I thought was worse than the engineering design and execution was the marketer's attitude and response to fixing the problems. The design issues were bad enough but that organization's response was what powered the lawsuit. I strongly recommend that anyone considering one of those boats read the transcripts of the Kakawi and other lawsuits first. If you are going to spend that kind of money, know who and what you are dealing with.