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MAN LE403 engines

Discussion in 'Engines' started by Sin miedo, Jun 19, 2022.

  1. Sin miedo

    Sin miedo New Member

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    does anyone know the rate of fuel burn for a pair of MAN 403LE engines running a 72 feet yacht?
  2. bernd1972

    bernd1972 Senior Member

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    You´re talking about the V12 or V8? 2842 or 2848?
  3. mapism

    mapism Senior Member

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    They used to build a V10 as well (2840).

    In fact, if I should hazard a guess based on the vessel size, I think that's likely to be the one the OP is referring to.
    A V12 would be even more appropriate for a 72 footer, but the LE403 version of the V12 is unheard of on pleasure boats, because it's a heavy duty rating engine, with a 720hp output @1800 rpm.
    As opposed to 800 and 1050 hp @2300rpm respectively for the V8 and V10, whose LE403 version were both light duty.
    And if that sounds like their models designation was a bit of a mess, it's because it was! :)

    Anyway, happy to post MAN curves, if the OP specifies which engine he's interested in.
  4. bernd1972

    bernd1972 Senior Member

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    V12 are LYE and LZE, my fault. So it´s obviously a V10 or V8. If V8 (2848 LE403) itßs the medium duty version @540hp. Got plenty of info on that one, have them myself. PM?

    I believe the 800hp from the V8 came later with the bigger bore and electronic injection versions. The mechanical V8 were 540hp and 680hp (LE403 and LE401)
  5. mapism

    mapism Senior Member

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    Bernd, happy to enter in more details by PM if you wish, but I think you're mixing up the V8 numbers/ratings (or possibly kW vs. Hp, not sure).
    I happen to know the 90s MAN range pretty well because I came across many of them during my last boat search, eventually chosing one powered by the D2848 LE403.

    And I'm pretty sure that this version was light duty rated, capable of 800hp.
    But still 100% mechanical - in fact, the V8 was the very last MAN block to be converted to CRM, skipping the semi-electronic EDC versions that they fitted on the V10 and V12 for a few years.
    The predecessor D2848 LE401 was capable of 680hp instead.

    BTW, MAN never increased the bore of their engines - not even in the current lineup, which is still the same old 128mm that has been around forever.
    The slightly higher displacement of V8 and V12 in the second half of the noughties (by which time the V10 had already been phased out) came from a redesigned basement+crankshaft, with a longer stroke.

    If you're sure to have the medium duty V8 in your boat, the only one I'm aware of was the LE405, also mechanical and rated for 650hp @2100 rpm.
    But I never studied their heavy and medium duty range in detail!
  6. bernd1972

    bernd1972 Senior Member

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    Hi Mapism,
    Maybe I am wrong on this and the medium duty 2848 is the LE405, however, the medium duty cersion of the 680hp defintelly comes @540hp. Also copied by Doosan (Daewoo Heavy industries), same two power ratings and all. It´s well possible that the LE 401 and LE403 are both two generations of the same 2848, however, I´m not perfectly sure with different power ratings of these two versions. From my memory both mechanical engines were 680hp in the light duty rating. But don´t make me swear it. Perhaps you could check the volume? The 2848 series was allways 14,6 liters, in all versions. But I think there was an increased volume version on the V8-block @ about 16,5 liters as well. No sure about the type code.

    MAN definitetlly increased the volume, not sure if they did by increasing bore or stroke. This change was, for example, done with the step from the 2866 to the 2876 with the six-bangers.
  7. mapism

    mapism Senior Member

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    Always stroke. As I said, bore has been 128mm for decades, and still is in current days.
    With the inline 6, stroke was upped from 155mm of the 2866 to 166mm of the 2876 - hence displacement from 12 to 12.8 liters.
    With the V engines, stroke went from 142 to 157mm - hence displacement from 14.6 to 16.2 liters (V8) and from 22 to 24 liters (V12).
    A longer stroke version of the V10 doesn't exist, because by the time they redesigned the V engines basement+crankshaft, they also dismissed the V10.
    Fiammetta42 and bernd1972 like this.
  8. Sin miedo

    Sin miedo New Member

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    The four-stroke marine diesel D2840 LE 403 model has a bore and stroke of 128 mm x 142 mm and two banks of five cylinders arranged in a 90-degree V, giving a total swept volume for the engine of 18.27 liters.
  9. Sin miedo

    Sin miedo New Member

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    So, does anyone know the fuel consumption at 1900 RPM?
  10. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    I was wondering if you were still interested.
    Guys, Lets find this kid some answers.
  11. mapism

    mapism Senior Member

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    Fuel burn does NOT depend just on the engine model and its RPM, but also on its load at that RPM - which in turn depends on the propeller demand of the specific boat you are considering.
    And if you think this is just a useless analysis paralysis, well, think again: the same engine, at the same RPM, can show huge differences in fuel burn, between two different boats.

    That said, according to MAN, one D2840 LE403 at 1900 RPM should burn 25 GPH.
    You can see this and other relevant numbers in the bottom table of the second page, in the attached specs sheet.
    But don't take this as gospel truth, because even the manufacturers have absolutely no way to know how much their engines will actually burn on each installation, and their "prop demand" numbers are just a theoretical average.

    What the manufacturer know with a good level of accuracy is the output at full load that an engine is capable to produce, and in turn its full load fuel burn. Which, just to put things into context, is a whopping 47 instead of 25 GPH, for this engine.
    But you should do a bit of math to calculate that, starting from the specific consumption in g/kWh.

    Attached Files:

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  12. mapism

    mapism Senior Member

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    As an aside, it's nice to see that my guess in post #3 was correct.
    And FWIW, this is not a powerplant I'd be happy to have on any 72 footer, for various reasons.
    But this is for another thread.
  13. Sarnico

    Sarnico New Member

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    Hi,

    new to the forums so hello!! I might be of help with my first post as I run two D2840 LE403 (V10, 1050 bhp) on a 60 foot open:

    @30 knots cruise I see about 110 liters per hour indicated, this is at about 80/85 % load
    I am not 100% sure but this should be at 1.800/1.900 rpm

    I can check at the weekend if you want me to. Have a great week and kind regards, Felix
  14. mapism

    mapism Senior Member

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    Hi and welcome.
    Your post and your username make me guess that you're talking of a Sarnico 60 HT, right?
    Very nice boat indeed, just perfect for Med cruising!
  15. Sarnico

    Sarnico New Member

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    Hi Mapism, thank you!! I have the older 58 unfortunately :)
  16. Sarnico

    Sarnico New Member

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    As you seem to know your stuff, and without wanting to hijack the thread, how much black smoke do you think is acceptable just befor the turbos spool up on these engines? Mine are putting out a fair bit...
  17. mapism

    mapism Senior Member

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    Mmm... Really BLACK smoke, I'd say very little, if any at all.
    What is pretty normal is some grey smoke upon cold start, which can last anywhere from a minute to about 4 or 5, depending on the environment temperature.

    Another normal occurrence is some black soot deposit on the hull around the exhausts, after running for some time at or just above idle.
    This is due to the combination of two factors: first, the engines not reaching their optimal operating temperature, and second, the fact that in most boats (though I can't remember yours specifically), at very low speed the exhaust gas can't escape from the underwater outlet, and is forced through the lateral (or transom) bypass, hence sticking a bit on the hull around it.

    But after say 5 minutes or so from startup, you should only have a minimal amount of grey-ish smoke.
    Otherwise, it would be a good idea to pull all the injectors, have them calibrated, and their nozzles replaced.
    How many hours did your engines clock (or how many since the last injectors check, if already done in the past)?
    Most MAN engineers recommend to check the injectors every thousand hours, though many agree that they can last much longer (I made that at around 1500 hours on my boat, fwiw).
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2022
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  18. Sin miedo

    Sin miedo New Member

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    Thank you so much for the information. The load is about is 102,000 lbs. Max speed suppose to be only 22 knots.
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  19. Sarnico

    Sarnico New Member

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    Hi Mapism,

    thank for your reply - can confirm the grey smoke on start up, usually disappears after about a minute or so. Also a little soot and yes there is a low speed bypass for the exhaust.
    No smoke at all at slow speeds - just when I want to get it up on the plane it smokes just prior to the turbos spooling up. At cruise there is just a faint haze if that makes sense...

    Engines have close to 700hrs and yes I think an injector check is sensible (along with A1 service). Just need to find a good MAN- competent service agent in the Adriatic which seems to be some task :D
  20. Sarnico

    Sarnico New Member

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    My pleasure - you should be "ok" then I guess!!