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MAN 10V-1100 (D2840 LE 423)

Discussion in 'Engines' started by SkyDriver, Aug 24, 2020.

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  1. SkyDriver

    SkyDriver New Member

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    I'm going to look at a MY with MAN 10v-1100 engines later this week.

    Would appreciate if you could share any of your operating/maintaining experiences.

    Any suggestions for MAN maintence people on FLA west coast.

    Read earlier threads already, just wanted some updated advice

    Thanks in advance :)
  2. mapism

    mapism Senior Member

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    I never liked any version of V10 MAN engines, because they are rougher than both the V12 (which is unquestionably the smoother of their modular engines) and also the smaller V8.
    It's no coincidence that after sticking to it the Common Rail in the LE423 version, MAN phased out the V10 altogether, and focused their developments on the V8 and V12 blocks.
    That said, my understanding is that the LE423 was at least better than the semi-electronic, non-common rail LE403 (1050hp), which was a not so reliable version developed upon their last mechanical V10 (the 820hp LE401, which had instead a decent reputation).

    Sorry, I can't suggest any good MAN dealer in your area of interest, but I would certainly involve one for the survey & seatrial.
    On top of all the usual reasons, he should be able to find for you (unless the previous owner already has it in the boat papers) a copy of the original test performed upon commissioning for validating the warranty.
    And a comparison between the numbers recorded back then and all the present ones reported by the MMDS displays can give you a very valuable picture.

    Good luck!
  3. Spellbound

    Spellbound New Member

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    David Hinkle Marine Diesel One 941 350-5934. David was the MAN dealer for SRQ before concentrating on Surveys/expert witness. Shop on Whitfield Ave, suggest go talk with him about your engines, very knowledgeable.
  4. SkyDriver

    SkyDriver New Member

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    Thank you for the information.
    This is a 2 owner boat, first owner changed the motors. Originally built with
    LE403's , were replaced with 423's in 2012. Heard from another source the boat
    would vibrate when the cylinder cylinder deactivation was operating.
  5. SkyDriver

    SkyDriver New Member

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    Thanks for passing along his information
  6. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    I am of the opposite feeling than Mapism. I agree the 1050hp NON-common rail Man v10's vibrated like crazy under 1000rpms. The NON-common rail 820hp v10's did not, a little vibration under 1000 rpms, but nothing worth noting about. That being said I've been running a 2007 set of the common rail V10 1100hp MAN's since 2011. Aside from having sensors fail, and having to change the alarm monitoring boards. They have been great motors. They're smooth, have a lot more torque than the new 1200hp V8's and we haven't had any issues with them. Admittedly they only have 1400 hours on them, but they're good running motors and very smooth and clean at cruise. They're also clean running elsewhere.
  7. mapism

    mapism Senior Member

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    I'm not sure of how your feeling is opposite of mine, overall.
    You agree with me that the LE403/1050 was a POS - why am I not surprised to hear from the OP that the previous owner binned them?
    You agree with me that the LE423/1100hp was better - as well as the LE401/820, which in fact did not have any cylinder partialization, being 100% mechanical.

    You seem to prefer the V10/1100 to the V8/1200, and that's where our views are different.
    Now, when it comes to personal preferences, who am I to argue?
    BUT you shouldn't trust gut feeling, as I guess you did, for evaluating an engine.
    Its performance can come across anywhere between poor and excellent, depending on the installation.
    In fact, also if we want to leave aside the not irrelevant fact that the manufacturer phased out the V10 block completely after the LE423, and invested heavily on completely new V8 and V12 basements, your impression on torque is completely wrong.
    The V8/1200 torque is about 200 Ft Lbs higher than the V10/1100, and steady over a wider range, starting from 1200 rather than 1400+ rpm.

    That said, it's perfectly plausible that a boat runs well with the V10/1100, and another runs poorly with the V8/1200.
    It could even happen for the same model of boat, btw.
    Weight distribution is bound to be a bit different for instance, when using blocks of different length.
    But the only conclusion that can be drawn is that the former overall installation is better than the latter, not that the engine as such is.
  8. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    I've run the new v8/1200's in 2 different motoryachts. IN both of them there was a huge difference in RPM at 80% load between both boats being full of fuel or half full of fuel (no other changes) and an associated large difference in speed. In fact on one boat, I ran a sistership with 1000 hp CAT C12.9's (which I hate with a passion) and it was only 1 knot slower full of fuel, and the MAN boat didn't really start gaining more speed over the CAT boat until they were both half full of fuel..........then there was a 3-4 knot spread. The other MAN boat is the same as far as gaining speed/rpm goes between full fuel and half full......and we're only talking about motoryachts with 900 and 1050 gallons of fuel. The V10 man 1100 hp MAN boat I have run for a long time also gains RPM as we lose weight but not effected as much......and the 820HP boat I just put over 1000 NM's, didn't gain any speed at all between full fuel and 1/3 but ran it same rpm all day.......I wasn't aware it didn't have the cylinder cut out as between 750-900 rpms it did exhibit some mild vibration.......
  9. mapism

    mapism Senior Member

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    Fair enough, but again, there can be plenty of technical reasons behind the behaviour you are describing, torque being just one of them.

    In fact, for all the faults of the LE403/1050, its torque was hugely higher (>500 Ft Lbs!) and much more steady than in the LE401/820 - as is logic to expect with electronic vs. mechanical governor.
    Btw, I don't actually remember all these engine specs by heart, just in case you are wondering.
    I just happen to have a good database of specs sheets and manuals in my notebook, so it only takes me half a minute to check them.

    Anyway, the only sound conclusion you can draw from the fact that the V10/820 powered boat which you tried was less load-sensitive than those with the V8/1200 and also the one with the Cat is that overall it was a better designed installation, certainly not that its engines as such were better.
  10. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    I was comparing the V10-1100hp common rail to the v8-1200hp common rails.
  11. jim rapp

    jim rapp New Member

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    The owner of Scott Marine Power, a large Man dealer in Lauderdale, couldn't disagree more. He feels the v10 1100hp crm man is one of the best engines of any brand he has ever sold or worked on. "Quiet, smooth, powerful, efficient, bulletproof." I have a pair on my Viking and I agree with Scott about their performance. I'd personally take these v10 1100hp crm's over the v8 or v12 versions, but that said, I feel all the Man crm engines are the best engines on the water, bar none. Man upped their game when they evolved to the crm generation.
  12. mapism

    mapism Senior Member

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    If you are happy with the powerplant in your Viking, good for you.
    And if that Scott Marine Power chap thinks that the V10/1100 is one of the best engines ever, well, that's a respectable opinion.
    I could mention three among the larger Italian MAN dealers, two of which work closely with builders for OEM installations, whose opinion is exactly the opposite on the V10 block in general, though with some differences between the different versions, as previously discussed.
    But when talking of opinions, we can debate till the cows come home and reach no conclusion.

    At the end of the day there's only one thing we are sure of, because it's by now history:
    After MAN jumped on the common rail bandwagon around the mid naughties, they were able to squeeze more power from all of their engines.
    Courtesy also of 4 valve heads actually - it wasn't just electronic gizmos that made them good for up to 900, 1100 and 1360 hp - respectively for the V8, V10 and V12.
    BUT, they soon realized that there was room for further power growth, if it weren't that the crankcase was working at its structural limits.
    So, they decided to bite the bullet and redesign it completely (though still around the archaic 128mm bore M-B blocks), to make it more robust and capable to withstand a longer stroke crankshaft.
    And guess what? In that occasion, they decided that only the V8 and V12 were worth such investment, and phased out the V10 block completely, stopping its production already 10 years ago or so.
    These days, not only the V8 and V12 based on these heavily redesigned blocks are available up to 1300 and 2000 hp respectively, but there are also the equivalent, de-tuned medium and heavy duty versions.
    For the records, also back in its days, a heavy duty rating V10 never existed, it was only available in light and medium duty.

    Bottom line, maybe the German engineers at MAN knew something that the Scott Marine Power owner didn't.
    Or maybe the opposite, who knows? :)
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2021
  13. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    I think they just didn't see a place for it in the marine world and could cover the HP range OK enough with a V8 and V12. Just like MTU dropped their 10 cylinder and CAT goes from a 6 cylinder to 12 cylinder engine. Could also be an emissions thing, which is why CAT dropped the 1000 hp C18 and kept the 1150hp and relies on the Fiat C12.9 for the 800-1000hp realm on yachts.

    I've run 3 yachts with the new V8's.....1 with 1000hp version and 2 with the 1200 HP version. The V8s don't run as smooth as the old V10's and don't have the low end torque the V10's had, and slow down a lot more at cruise when the yacht is heavy (full fuel/full water/groceries/guests). Everyone on this side of the pond says the same thing. They run smooth enough and quiet, but just not as smooth as the V10's did. I also run a yacht with the 1360hp V12's and they seem to lack balls/torque for lack of a better word.

    I think it was a mistake that they didn't increase bore. Bore gets you more HP, stroke gets you more torque........I think the bore/stroke ratio of the older motors seems to install a smoother running motor. They should've increased bore and stroke in the redesign.
  14. mapism

    mapism Senior Member

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    Neither MAN nor other major manufacturers design their blocks specifically for marine applications.
    They just marinize something designed primarily for other larger markets.
    In fact, they phased out the V10 also from their construction machinery, locomotives, agricultural, power generation, you name it.

    The choice of bore/stroke ratio upon redesign was just a matter of costs.
    Essentially, to increase the stroke to 157mm and produce more power, they "only" had to redesign and strengthen the lower half of the crankcase, together with a new crankshaft, obviously.
    Higher bore would have meant a totally new block.

    Ref. what folks say on your side of the Pond, if you tell me that the V10 was highly appreciated I take your word for it, and I'm not disputing it at all.
    But we are back to opinions.
    Mine, aside from chats with MAN engineers, is based on 3 boats I tried, powered by the latest V10s: 820, 1050 and 1100 - and none of them impressed me (the 820 being actually not too bad, the 1100 a close second, and the 1050 way behind both).
    But that's yet again just an opinion, and I'm certainly not pretending that 3 boats is a solid statistic base, anyway.

    OTOH, what MAN decided to do (or NOT to do, in the case of the V10), as opposed to opinions, is instead history by now.
  15. motoryachtlover

    motoryachtlover Senior Member

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    Mapism I sincerely enjoy your posts and find them informative. So not at all trying to start something. But, I am pretty sure you are wrong about the 820 V10 not having cylinder cut outs. I believe this was debated in a previous thread. I realize this is an opinion but it is relevant one based on 10+ years of ownership. The 820s vibration is exist but not an issue. The 820s have an excellent deserved reputation for longevity provided you take care of them. I have 200o hours and still have crosshatching on my cylinder walls. They may let me down tomorrow but till this point they have carried me to the Bahamas and up and down the east coast numerous times and have been rock solid. Like Capt J says they run the same speed full of fuel, water, and dinghy on the bow and don’t pick up speed as the fuel is used up.
  16. mapism

    mapism Senior Member

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    Yup, we did discuss the partialization in the past, and it appeared that what I was told about the lack of it in mechanical engines was wrong.
  17. gcracker89

    gcracker89 New Member

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    Boy would I love some one from the factory to post as why they dropped the 10 cyl.
  18. Riknpat

    Riknpat Senior Member

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    A question more than a comment. Marines engine maker Baudouin of France, perhaps better known in commercial vessels than yachts (but they are pushing their products for yachts particularly the new IMO III EPA 4 models) claims that their engines are designed specifically for marine use and not marinized versions of a an engine designed for trucks, trains or heavy equipment. Do you know if this is true? And if it is true do you think it is an advantage?
  19. mapism

    mapism Senior Member

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    I can't actually be positive on that, but yes, AFAIK Baudouin is only focused on marine applications.
    Another manufacturer I can think of, whose engines are specifically designed for powering boats (albeit at the opposite end of the scale, i.e. high performance/fast patrol/racing) is Seatek.

    When I said "major" manufacturers, I was more thinking to the usual suspects that you can find on mainstream pleasure boats, where you are extremely unlikely to find either Baudouin or Seatek.

    Ref. your last question, the answer is bound to be yes, in principle it could be an advantage if an engine is designed from the ground up for marine environment. But at the end of the day, what really matters is the marinization part, and that is obviously engineered specifically also for all other engines derived from industrial versions.
    Riknpat likes this.