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Maintenance costs on 48' MY

Discussion in 'General Yachting Discussion' started by bamyacht, Sep 8, 2009.

  1. bamyacht

    bamyacht New Member

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    Trying to put together a budget for a 1992 48' Offshore CMY I just bought. Can anyone advise me on maintenance costs & weekly maintenance responsibilities? Thanks
  2. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    maintenance costs are hard to guess, it depends on the boat, its location, and how you will run her...

    for instance, if you're up north, your maintenance will be different.. you'll be hauling out soon, winterizing, shrinkwrapping,e tc.... if your'e down south, winter time is easier on bottom paint and you may not need your diver as often... up north, you dont' use air con much and your strainers may not need cleaning every 2 to 4 weeks as they do down here...

    maintenance also depends on the equipment... hwo big are your engines? will they take 5 qts of oil per oil change or 20 gallons?? do you have AGM batteries or lead acid? the later will require watering... what kind of charger? an old ferro from the early 90s? you'll have to add water at least monthly... if a recent 3 sgtage, every few months will be fine...

    real hard to answer your questions...

    a few things common to all...

    1)- check your bilge pump float switches and high water alarms monthly.
    2)- clean your strainers montly, esp. Air Con and genset (depending on use), main engines usually dont' need to be checked monthly but it's good to do so anyway
    3)- top off you batteries monthly
    4)- check the conditions of your shore power cords and plugs monthly, or whenver connecting/disconnecting. with loads on, check for heat near the plugs/connectors
    5)- refresh the content of your fresh water tank... many people kjust run off dockside water which is a mistake in my opinion. doing so can resutl in the boat filling with water in case of a plumbing failure and also it leaves old water in teh tank... using tank water ensures a regular refreshing and also brings in chlorinated water (from the city) which keeps stuff from growing

    other things depend on run time (oil changes, fuel filter changes, etc...)
  3. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    This was just covered on another thread. So I'll repeat what was said there: figure 10% of your purchase price as your rough estimate of annual maintenance costs. At 48' I strongly suggest you hire a qualified deckhand or captain by the day and as manager for a monthly fee. Over the first year you'll work out your costs and that figure will go out the window the second year:cool: . That manager will be able to advise you on the maintenance needs for your specific boat in it's specific locale.
  4. bamyacht

    bamyacht New Member

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    I’m in Southern California, on a mooring. My engines are 375HP Cat 3208TAs. Not sure about the oil it takes. Just bought new deep cycle marine batteries & a new charger from “Lewco”. Thanks for taking the time to write such a detailed response.
  5. bamyacht

    bamyacht New Member

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    Thanks
  6. cyd

    cyd New Member

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    10%

    With the current drop in purchase prices of yachts, I think that the 10% guideline is potentially now a inaccurate guide.
    If the yacht was purchased at 50% of its previous value, then double that 10% would be more realistic.

    To any owners getting a bargain, please bear this in mind, as to judge your Captain on his need for over 10% to run/maintain your yacht, will be unfair, and lead to potentially losing many good trustworthy Captains, who can not possibly meet the 10% guide, on a yacht sold at a vastly reduced price.

    This will lead to an under maintained vessel, a further de-valued asset for the Owner, and a ruined employment record for even the best crew with previously great histories.
  7. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    Hi,

    That is a pretty interesting way to look at the current situation, whilst the maths works out OK I wonder how many boats are actually changing hands for 50% of their previous value
  8. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    That's a lot of boat to keep on a mooring where it doesn't get washed much, can't run the dehumidifier or use that charger. Hopefully you'll use it a lot.
  9. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    I've found that pre-owned small boat prices came down 10-20% and many came down not at all as the owners were upside-down and have to just wait it out. Some new boat dealers SAY they're giving 50% off on leftovers. Of course there are a few odd deals and repos.
    That said I've found that a new crop of owners is out there and they are cheap. They don't respect a person's time, question every body's rates, and don't or barely tip anybody. What they don't realize is that as the economy improves they will be put to the bottom of every body's list. Captains will cancel them for a better payday and when they bring their boats in for service in July they'll be told to come back in September.
  10. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    "figure 10% of your purchase price as your rough estimate of annual maintenance costs"

    ASSuming you had the boat surveyed and you won't have any major surprises, i totally disagree with that 10% "rule" unless it includes fuel, insurance, dockage, etc... in other words all costs. I've never even come close to 10% maintenance on my own boat (53 hatt) or the 70 footer i captain.

    as to hiring a manager on a boat that size, i think it's an overkill... hiring a captain early on maybe a good idea depending on your experience, not just to learn to drive/handle the boat, but also to cover some of the routine maintenance. or hire a mechanic for the first oil change (and fuel filter), and warn him ahead of time that you want to watch / learn

    In so cal, i dont' think humidity is an issue so a mooring will be fine. Keeping a boat on a mooring is a good option (the 70 footer i run spends the whole summer on a mooring) but you need to work out the details.

    the biggest one is water (unless you want to be a ragboter... no offense guys, i'm just kidding being a part time ragboter myself, but we've all seen sailboatds with a collection of 5gal. cans on deck...).

    Ideally, you have a watermaker, or a delivery service in that harbor... otherwise, get a 50gal. bladder in your tender with a n electric diaphragm pump... this way you can wash the boat as much as you want.

    so being on so cal mooring, you wnot' have to worry too much about AC strainers but since you'll probably run your genny a little more, checking your genset strainer will be needed depending on how much you run it. Ideally, when you're on the boat, a few hours a day (evening) to charge up, cook, etc... After a short time, you'll get a feel for how often it needs to be done... start every couple of weeks.

    If your batteries are lead acid, check the levels every month (top off with distilled water, use a battery filler, much easier)

    other routine mainteance items includes:

    -oil change: mains and genset(s), typically every 100hrs
    -primary fuel filter change: depends on how clean your fuel is... anywhere between 50 hours to 200hrs... easy job although there are a few tricks to make it easier
    -secondary fuel filter change: they last much longer than the primaries... figure once a year
    -impellers. your engines (mains and genset) are water cooled and use a self priming pummp with a rubber impeller. if you're lucky, they'll last for 1, 2, 3 years... but run them dry once (clogged up strainer, plastic bag on intake) and they'll be toast. it's not rocket science but make sure you have spares on board, an impeller puller and the right tools.
    - monthly: lift the float switch on every bilge pump and make sure they start. if your boat has high water alarm, check them too (buzzer/light at the helm).

    that shoudl be it for routine maintenance, it's really not bad. the rest is dealing with issues that may crop up, hard to budget/set a schedule obviously... but if you shuold be able to learn quickly, it's really not rocket science. I'm not talking about rebuilding an engine, but if you can handle the basic stuff, you can drastically cut your maintenance costs. And save the day when "something" happens isntead of calling it a day.

    finally, in addition to a good tool set (not the cheap china junk kit), a electric meter, and basic spares, get yourself the manuals for your engines and gennies. also, make sure you have manuals for the various systems (steering, pump, heads, etc...)... many manufacturers have them on their website, now is the time to download or order those you dont' have.
  11. Marmot

    Marmot Senior Member

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    I will go along with Pascal on this one. Hiring a captain and/or manager and/or deckhand for a 48 footer is silly and probably the shortcut to getting out of boating altogether. Hire someone for a few days to show you how to drive the boat, and someone for a few hours to show you how to take care of the systems then do it yourself. This isn't a megayacht, it's a comfortable size fun boat.

    Remember the old adage, "if your only tool is a hammer, every problem is a nail" and be very careful about advice from captains saying you need a captain, and engineers saying you need an engineer ...

    If you learn how to use and take care of your boat yourself, you may be delighted at how inexpensive it can be to own. If you don't learn you will be left in shock at how quickly you ran out of boating money and became discouraged with the whole idea. There is no shortage of boating experts ready to help you write checks.
  12. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Is this to be a live aboard? Otherwise he'll probably only be on a few hours a month. Also, I don't see many 50 footers with water makers. Unfortunately, when I see a power boat over 35' on a mooring (other than a transient), it's usually somebody operating on the cheap and the result is seldom good from a maintenance or cleanliness standpoint.
    As for hiring a manager I totally disagree. 1) On a 48 footer you need a second qualified hand to safely operate, and you'll learn something every time you cruise with him. Having your captain or DH on a monthly stipend assures you priority when you want to cruise. Just last weekend I was on a 40 that had its windless jam in front of the Statue of Liberty. If I wasn't there to pull it apart in the bouncing, crowded harbor while the owner manned the helm he would have had to cut his anchor. 2) I saved my last boss way more than he paid me by avoiding unnecessary repairs, keeping the yards honest and generally having them know they weren't dealing with an ignorant owner. 3) whether you're dealing with humidity or heat a/c is needed. Humidity/mold, heat/glues dry out. 4) I have rarely met an owner of a boat who properly maintains it himself. I'd be thrilled if they just did an engine room check before they fired up. More often they spend their time working so they can afford the boat and just cruise when they're on board.
    As for the 10% figure, I've more often than not found that it's 10% of the original price, not the second hand price on a well maintained boat when you count everything and cruise about 200 hours a year.
  13. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    a mooring isnt' a sign of being cheap... there are many benefits to a mooring including nicer views and privacy which you dont' get at a dock. Again, in so cal, humidity isn't an issue anyway.

    crew to safely operate a 48 footer? gimme a break here... yes, at first, if the owner is new to boats that size having a crew will help but after a few times, he shoudl be fine.

    unjamming a windlass is one of the thing any boat owner shoudl know how to do... then what happened to muscle anyway? if one can't raise an anchor manually on a 40 or 50 footer, he has other things to worry about! so yeah, an 80 year old owner with a bad back should have a crew but the average person will be just fine...


    i'm not sure why you are always ranting about "ignorant" owners... for one, i've been a boat owner for over 20 years before doing this for a living and like msot owners I know, i was not ignorant... there are idiots everywhere, including those **** sportfish delivery captains that think their wake doesn't stink... but let's not generalize. and dont' get me started on the "professional captain" who think they are too good to get in the bilge or think that their own convenience is more important than saving $ to the owner....

    look, it's not black and white... there are bad owners and bad captains but most boat owners I know care about maintaining their vessels. I have a few friends with boats in the 40 to 60' range, they know how to safely operate and maintain their boats as well as any "pro".

    actually, if you encourage a boat owner to maintain his own boat, they will know that to do when something happens. Then if he finds out he doesn't have time, or that he'd rather be using the boat instead of working on her, then that's his choice... he can make an informed decision about it. Not be at the mercy of a "pro" who will think his budget is unlimited.

    but again, as an owner first, i look at it from a boater owner's perspective.
  14. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Absolutely correct. There are owners and there are owners; there are captains and there are captains. I firmly believe that a boat over 50' (48' is very close depending on the style) needs a good second hand. That doesn't have to be a captain. It can be a wife or even a kid IF they're qualified. But you need someone who can handle one end of the boat when you need to be at the other or to help if you become disabled (40 to 60 are prime heart attack years as well as the years when most guys can afford a 50.) We're not talking about a f/t captain here either. My personal way of managing a boat is to charge a modest monthly stipend. In return I discount my captain's rate, especially when I have to come in for only a few hours to work with an ET or something. That comes out far cheaper than the owner having to take a day from work. Again though, we're not necessarily talking about a captain or engineer; just someone who knows boats, knows your boat, knows the business and that you trust to look out for your best interests.
    Pascal, you and I grew up in the same school. If you don't know how to keep it running you don't buy it. That's not the guy who generally owns the 60' or less boat today. He's a lawyer, doctor, accountant, etc. who believes that what he sees on the commercials is all there is. He's never looked under the hood of his car much less crawled through a blige. He's not a mariner. As for "not my job" captains, don't get me started. I have less use for them than I have for __________.
  15. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    "who believes that what he sees on the commercials is all the is"

    you mean... joystick drivign isn't the answer to all boating problems? :)

    my point is that i dont' think that telling someone up front that a 50 footer requires a crew or "manager" is the right answer. it may be for some, but again, it's not black or white. most 50, 60 footers out there are owner operated, managed and maintained. and it works. could be a geographical thing, at least that's how it is down here.

    as to having a heart attack, well frankly i'll have bigger worries than drifting into something... and i'm more concerned about someone having a heart attack at 70mph and crossing the interstate median!
  16. Marmot

    Marmot Senior Member

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    Not much room for misinterpretation there.

    There seems to be some mighty powerful backpedaling going on here :rolleyes:
  17. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Only thing in life that you're required to do is pay taxes and die.:cool: And no there is no back-peddling. "suggest you hire a qualified deckhand or captain by the day". Also: "be very careful about advice from captains saying you need a captain, and engineers saying you need an engineer ..."? Trust me, I am NOT looking for work in So. Cal. One should always look for advice from people who have no stake in the game. Beats getting it from the guy who sold you the boat or the yard you'll pay to repair it.:rolleyes:
  18. bamyacht

    bamyacht New Member

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    Don't need a dehumidifier in So Cal. In the harbor we have services that'll wash/ wax, bottom clean/ zincs. Pretty much every service needed you can get on the mooring - as needed if not yards/ docks are a stones throw away. We run the boat or gen every week for a few hours to charge the batteries but only leave the bilge on so little draw. Later if I want more on continuously I'll use a small solar panel.
  19. bamyacht

    bamyacht New Member

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    From my perspective as a 54 yr old hands on guy who never owned/ ran a boat before July 1, 09, many valid viewpoints being floated. It does depend on the guy, the circumstances. For me I can/ do handle my boat solo, no thrusters either, no biggy. I know I'm going to end up in trouble, but I can't always have a captain with me & theres is no way they can train you for every situation. I'm trying to learn everything I can, pay to have systems checked/ upgraded. Still I am very very leary of the unforseen emergencies. My boat insurance carrier required me to get trained/ signed off by a captain (which I did).
  20. Seafarer

    Seafarer Senior Member

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    Long Island has a lot of 'citiots' who keep a car in a garage and it's picked up/dropped off by the dealer when it needs service. They get their groceries delivered. If something breaks in their apartment - rented, natch - they call the building super to fix it an they don't see a bill. They sit in traffic out to the east end every summer weekend to live in a rented shore house.

    They buy a boat and it should, like their mac, "just work."

    It's definitely a geographic phenomenon, due to proximity to a hub of renter mentality.