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Low shore power voltage

Discussion in 'Technical Discussion' started by NYCAP123, Jul 2, 2013.

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  1. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Really? In 25 years of moving boats I've never found the need, and there's only so much we can reasonably carry. Whenever I've run into a problem I make whatever emergency repairs are needed, and make my way to where I can put the boat into the hands of the appropriate professional in the field. When I move a boat I carry appropriate clothes, my GPS, charts, cruising guides, a roll of atomic tape and a leatherman (my belt is my strap wrench). If those and whatever tools are on board can't get things going it's time for Sea Tow. If the owner wanted to have en engineer on board he could have hired one. A captain is not an engineer and an engineer is not a captain although their jobs may overlap from time to time. If I were ever to make a major repair and something happened later on I wouldn't have a satisfactory answer to the question "What made you think you were qualified to do this?". I couldn't point to a license or even formal training, and 'Well I've done it on my own boat' would have the lawyers laughing as they booked their next vacation.
  2. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Ov-glove and fire extinguisher handy. If I call my wife from one more ER she's going dump my sorry butt. (Last call started with 'I'm laying in the middle of 107 waiting for the ambulance').:D
  3. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    I wonder how many marine techs and electricians have any formal training and certification.

    I have never heard or read about any captain having properly done a repair getting in trouble. Sure, anything is possible but if you troubleshoot and repair an electrical issue following ABYC standards, using marine wiring, connectors, etc... I don't think you can be liable...

    Do you know how many home grade twist connectors I ve found on various boats, installed by marine yards, electricians AND surveyed?

    On smaller boats, a captain is also the engineer and I ve always thought basic electrical troubleshooting is part of the job. I just can't imagine telling an owner or charter guests... "Gee sorry... Shore power is out, I m afraid to be sued I won't troubleshoot"

    Maybe you ve been living in NY way too long :)
  4. saltysenior

    saltysenior Senior Member

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    maybe there's a union up there ?????:confused:
  5. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Guess I have, because I'd no sooner rewire someone else's 50 amp service or a marina's pedistal than I would hook someone's house up to the grid. 'IF properlu done', 'If I follow ABYC standards, using marine wiring, connectors, etc... ', That's a lot of IFs. "Gee sorry... Shore power is out, I m afraid to be sued I won't troubleshoot"? No, I'll be happy to troubleshoot, and then I'll call the guy to make your repair, and you'll pay an electrician his rate. There's a reason he gets $100 an hour and I don't.
  6. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    So what s the reason? He can hold two leads in an outlet and be smart smart not to touch the shiny part? He can use a blade to strip insulation with cutting himself? He can make a note of where 4 wires go on a plug before replacing it?

    Don't get me wrong, sometimes you have to know when to call a pro but there are a number of repairs that are simple enough to DIY

    By the time you call the guy, he charges you $100 an hour to travel to and from plus a couple hours labor, and full list plus some on the plug it's indeed a B.end O.ver A.nd T.ake-it :)

    But yes, the most critical part of the job is the go-no-go decision, whether to run that inlet, beat that thunderstorm, abort that landing because the wind is now 30kts ... Or call the pro.
  7. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Don't get me wrong, I can change an outlet or a light switch. What I'm not going to do is mess with the main feed or do a permanent installation of something like a voltage booster.
    My job is to narrow down what he has to focus on and make sure we don't pay for his lunch break, thereby saving the boss money. Beyond that, if the boss can't afford what it cost, he probably can't afford me or the boat either.
  8. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    And, how much is your time worth? How much of your time have you spent on here and elsewhere trying to figure out electricity, meanwhile the boat is sitting at the dock in a very perilous condition because either electrical items are not getting proper voltage, an electrical fire could breakout at anytime, or the boat has no electric hooked to it. Call a marine electrician ASAP, and have him come out ASAP, and just get it fixed.......before there is 10x more stuff that will need to be fixed.
  9. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Pascal, if there's a chance of a fire or such, that's an emergency repair. I do emergency repairs. You're getting a little far afield. I have a Hat that probably needs a voltage booster. A few days ago all I knew was that it showed 180V. Today I know what probably needs to be done and how to confirm that it is what's needed. I'm also familiar with what's on the market and how it needs to be installed. That's what I do as captain, and it didn't cost the owner one cent, instead of paying an electrician's rate for doing what I'm doing. So the electrician won't have to come out to troubleshoot the situation, and then order the part and come back out for a 2nd visit. If I were to install the voltage booster a) it would be a waste of time since it would easily take me three times as long as it would someone who does it all day, every day and b) I'm a lot more likely to screw up than a guy who does it all day, every day.

    I'll bet there are a lot of electricians who can dock a boat or make that go - no go decision, but there's not many who can do it as well as me. Every man to his trade.
  10. Capt Bill11

    Capt Bill11 Senior Member

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    God I wish I had your career! All I'd have to bring on a trip is a cell phone. ;)

    I've been a captain/engineer my whole career so far. And the jobs seem to over lap every day. So I guess I'm really doing something wrong. :D

    But all kidding aside, at least you understand your mechanical/electrical limitations. My pet peeve is when I get on a boat, like the one I'm on now, and it becomes very apparent the last captain/s did not. But that did not stop them from trying to play engineer. And then only end up F-ing everything they touch up.
  11. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Don't forget the suntan lotion for the ladies.

    They do, don't they. No need to look for more.

    Years ago my friend bought a car that the previous owner re-wired. Besides the shorts, all the wires were the same color. Must have been a sale.
    I'm not perfect nor all things to all people, but I'm pretty good at what I do. But I'm not afraid to draw the line where it works for me. I don't want my ears to burn when someone curses me like we cursed that guy who did the re-wire.:D
  12. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    as they often are in distribution boards and junction boxes. Old cars and trucks were pretty simple most wires supplied something ( positive)and connected to the earth stud (a metal part of the car)nearby

    Luckily cables used in marine and industrial applications with multiple same coloured conductors usually have small numbers on the insulation of each conductor. - not that this alone means the connections will always be done correctly :D
  13. saltysenior

    saltysenior Senior Member

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    soooo...........nobody has gathered up enough nerve to test the voltage at the pedestal with a voltmeter yet?:eek:
  14. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Just started walking (hobbling) yesterday. Hope to be back on board before the weekend and will be checking voltage throughout at that time. Will let you know what I find, but I expect to find somewhere between 208V and 190V at the pedestal.
  15. chesapeake46

    chesapeake46 Senior Member

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    One plus of knowing your comfortable limitations is that when you call an electrician, assuming his competence, he will have the pieces parts he needs at hand.

    When you are doing the buck/boost or voltage booster yourself, you may not even KNOW you don't have the correct pieces parts and you make due.

    Basic testing and stuff is fine but it may be that your better off letting the electrician install the equipment

    my .02
  16. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Absolutely and exactly my plan.
  17. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Well, I got back onto the boat today and found all good news. The marina did have a power supply problem and now had a transformer on our boat. It boosted the power supply to 190V (metered at the transformer), and that's exactly what we showed on the ship's meters. We're also able to run what we need on the 190V. But it gets better. In the generator room I found that we have not one, but two voltage boosters. Rather than being between the shore power and the panel (supplying the entire boat's grid) they are dedicated to the a/c's and the Galley. So, when we hook up to shore power, part of my routine will be to also turn those on. (On generator power they aren't needed.)
  18. Old Phart

    Old Phart Senior Member

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    Alrighty.

    Fire up the webcam, shanghai the dock girl to be a forward observer for some eye candy, and do some boating.

    Live Video from AXIS Camera
  19. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Oh, you've seen her.:D Don't think she legal though you old phart.:D I shut the main breaker when leaving and shut the camera, but asked the yard to turn it back on. Hope to have the ok from the doc to start changing the view on that camera in about a week and a half.

    BTW can anybody tell me around what voltage I could expect problems with the other systems (lights, pumps, TVs, etc.) Everything but the a/c's seem to run at 180V, and the a/c's at 190V. Reason I ask is that the yard is still recommending that we add a 3rd voltage booster, this one supplying the entire grid, and I'm wondering if it's necessary. Most other boats that don't have the draw of 5 a/c's and household appliances seem to cope with what they get.
  20. jhall767

    jhall767 Senior Member

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    Something is not quite right here. If I understand you correctly - the voltage is poor at their transformer. Comes down the dock and gets boosted by new transformer and is still at 190V. Then goes through your on-board transformers and is still low.

    And now they want you to add another booster transformer to get it up to the correct voltage!

    Sounds like I'll be reading about this on a fire marshals report at some point. Too many parts in this equation. Something is going to get overstressed.