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Looking for Coastal Cruiser

Discussion in 'General Yachting Discussion' started by LuvBigBoats, Jan 1, 2021.

  1. LuvBigBoats

    LuvBigBoats Member

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    Hi all--appreciate all the knowledge on this site. Spent some time researching and have a few questions.

    First off, live in Southern California and currently own a 43 SF. Thinking of moving into something better for weekend getaways (mostly to Catalina, maybe San Diego), and entertaining, less fishing oriented. But would also like to be able to cruise down to Cabo or north to the Bay Area and maybe even Canada or even Alaska someday. Staying relatively close to shore the entire time.

    Not overly concerned about speed, but would be great if I could get to at least 15+ nmph if I needed to.

    Assume budget up to $900k. Prefer keeping it 60' or below. Not sure if I need to keep it 53 or below to avoid needing to hire a captain. Have owned my 43 SF for over 5 years now, but I read somewhere on this forum insurance may be an issue if I increase length by >10 ft.

    Want to have areas for seating 10 or so people at a time inside and outside (not 5+5).

    Been looking at all sorts of models. The true long range trawlers like the Nordhavns, Krogens, Northern Marine, Selenes, etc. are way more than I need in terms of passagemaking capability and for the most part seem too slow for what I'd like.

    Also looking at Grand Banks Europa, Offshores, Outer Reef, Fleming, Marlow. I like this style (I think they are trawlers), but generally twin engine unlike the long range boats. Also looking at Ocean Alexanders. Only issue I have with this style is the salons seem more narrow due to the walkaround.

    On the other side I'm looking at motor yachts like the Hatteras. Really, really like the 63RPH, but unfortunately it's a little on the long side. Also looking at Sunseekers, but they don't seem nearly as well built or stout as the Hatteras and most of them in my size range have Man engines, which I want to avoid due to maintenance cost. These styles don't have the walkaround which tends to make the salon look much larger.

    Questions:
    1. I read the OAs are good except they all have aluminum fuel tanks that will give out at some point. The OA website says their tanks last longer than anyone else's, but trying to get the real answer here. I read in in the context of a post comparing to Hatteras, which uses fiberglass that supposedly lasts forever. Given my budget I'm looking at older boats so this is a real issue for me.

    2. Assuming I want to take a long trip, what sort of GPH at say a 10 knot cruise am I looking at on the Hatteras 63RPH (Cat 3412), Offshore 54 Pilothouse (Cat C12) GB Heritage 52(Cat C9), Fleming 55 (Cummins 450C), Hampton 58 (900hp Yanmars), Hampton 558 (480hp Cummins)? I know I said unlikely to get the Hatt due to size but just curious.

    3. Is there anything comparable in style and quality to the Hatt 63RPH but smaller?

    4. Did Outer Reef ever make anything in the 55 range? Don't see anything on YW and their website doesn't show current models in that size.

    Any other pearls of wisdom appreciated.
  2. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Not so sure you'll be required to use a captain if you go over 53' given you have 5 years with your 43. Best answer for that will come from your insurance company.
    Not much is "way more than I need in terms of passage making capability" when you're talking about cruising to Canada and Alaska. Seas can get real big and inlets real nasty up north. You have a good budget. I'd start with matching the budget with the 15 kt cruise speed and good handling and needed range as criteria and whittle the choices down from there. Right now you're looking at a pretty wide field. Maybe type some of those names into the SEARCH feature here and see what's been written in previous threads.
  3. LuvBigBoats

    LuvBigBoats Member

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    Thanks.

    I was thinking I don't need much in the way of range given that I'll be staying close to shore. Most of the models I'm looking at have 1000+ tanks, and was figuring at 9-10 nmph I'd always be close enough to a fuel source. You think I'm misguided there?

    Are the seas big enough up north you think a motor yacht like the Hatt 63RPH or a GB Europa would be overwhelmed?

    I have typed those names in and read the threads. Been extremely helpful. Of course the whole Marlow is great/crap debate is most interesting.
  4. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    'm an east coast boy but from what I've seen the harbors are pretty far apart on the west coast and several you'd like to or need to pass. So good range is important. I wouldn't stay too close to shore on a long transit on any coast much less the unforgiving west coast. At least on the east coast you can drop the hook and stand a chance of keeping water under the keel, and the sand beaches are better to land on than rock. Any boat can be overwhelmed by the sea but those are good choices.
  5. Dweintra

    Dweintra New Member

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    I bought a Carver 560 in San Diego and brought it up the coast to Seattle in May of 2018. It handled very well and 800 gallon tank was plenty. Cruised about 16-17 knots most days. A few tough days further north when we had to go slower. We stopped every night to make a fun trip of it and see things along the way. 10 days total.

    We topped off the fuel daily but did not need to do so. Good luck with the search.
  6. KoffeeCruising

    KoffeeCruising Member

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    All those sound great; -Flemming, Hat, BG...etc
    Look for add ons like a stabilizer, yacht controller remote, crane/davit/tender, water maker.

    on insurance- your company will assess your boating history. I went from 15+ years of owning 24’ lake runabouts to a 54’ Pama Pilothouse MY. Some insurers would t touch me, but GEICO BoatUS insured me then gave a discount when I got my 6pack Cap’n license. I took a Cap’n with me for first 80 hours and usually take him when I do any open water crossings. Your SF experience should be good.

    Seating for 10 will be a challenge; we can get 4-5 around the FB table, 2 in the FB Cap’n chairs and one or two can sit on the counter over the fridge.... 8 is about my practical limit. We can sleep 6, but 2 are in bunk beds. .. or 4 if we take Cap’n and he gets the bunk room. Think of your crew size.

    I thought I wanted a slow trawler but found having speed if/when needed is great. I can economically cruise @9ishKts @5GPHbut usually open it up to 20kts /35gph when on open water- best fuel burn for my hull & Volvo D9s. We like making distance when out on open water. I have 700 gal... but wish I had more for longer Bahamian adventures.

    I’m on east coast/S fl so we have ICW if weather is snotty so I can’t comment on West Coast.

    good luck / the search is part of the fun.
  7. LuvBigBoats

    LuvBigBoats Member

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    Thanks all. Koffee you didn't mention what boat you have(?)

    Plan to contact the insurance agent Monday to discuss what they will do.

    Right now in CA I'm looking at a Hatt 63RPH, GB Europa 52, OA 548 and a couple of Navigators (Navigators are pretty plentiful out here it seems). The Navigators seem like a good value but they also seem light for their size. Besides a cored hull I wonder what makes them so much lighter than the competition. There are also a couple Viking Princesses (esp a 61) and a couple 59 Marquis' I may look at, so if anyone has input on those it would be appreciated.

    Unfortunately the faster boats don't seem to come with any stabilization. I understand why, but I also plan to do some slow cruising and in that case stabilization would come in handy. Also at a mooring the wife would really like to have the boat stabilized.

    Dweintra you did that entire distance without refueling on an 800 gallon tank? That's impressive!
  8. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    The 63' Hatteras would be the best of the bunch. They did make a few with Cat C18's, which would help considerably with the fuel burn both at hull speed. Doubt you're going to find any in your year/price range with zero speed stabilization unless something had a seakeeper added. Outer limits didn't build anything that small to my knowledge. I'm not a fan of OA, Marlows or Offshores in that year range either.... I'd find the GB to interest me. 58' Searay sedan bridge which is obviously a different style would interest me as well as the 63' Sunseeker manhattan.
  9. JWY

    JWY Senior Member

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    Hey, Luv, a few comments:
    Firstly, you've been mostly a lurker for years, so welcome to becoming an active member. After you buy your next boat, hope you will post your experiences and new-found wisdom.

    For cruising SoCAl/Catalina, almost any boat will suffice. In spite of boats like Sea Ray or Carver having cruised your long-range plans, I would not consider them optimal vessels for that purpose and definitely not the vessel of choice for remote and far destinations such as Alaska. I would recommend the general category of boats that might be best for you are erroneously called "fast trawlers" but they would serve your purpose best. They are generally semi-displacement designs but utilize trawleresque features such as longer range, stability, sturdier construction, and usually have accoutrements such as watermakers and stabilizers. Many of the manufacturers you posted fit in this category. There are others.

    I agree with Koffe: "good luck / the search is part of the fun."
  10. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    I think the biggest consideration is when you plan to cruise north, because almost any boat will suffice in SoCal and for dock queen duty. When you head north you may deal with big seas, lots of wood (maybe ice) in the water and the possible need to skip planned stops because seas won't let you in (entering inlets is probably the most dangerous thing you'll do). That translates into a sea keeping ability, strong hull, protected running gear and extended range. For running to Catalina, doing day trips and hanging at the dock you're looking more for speed and party space. So maybe the passage maker is your next boat after this one. Almost any boat can go anywhere when things are good. The purpose they're built for comes out when the s--- hits the fan.
  11. JWY

    JWY Senior Member

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    +1!
  12. KoffeeCruising

    KoffeeCruising Member

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    8C6585E3-5559-4661-B582-002FD5810ABF.jpeg
    LuvBig

    I have a 2007 Pama 54Lx. These were built in China and I assumed they ceased production after the 2008 crisis. There are a several in Florida. I have Hull 11, twin Volvo D-9s @ 575HP. Great teak/holly interior, crane/davit with 13’ tender, 2 head, 3 stateroom layout (although the 3rd is a small bunkroom). I’ve added a water maker and am just now adding an ARG Gyro stabilizer. It’s great for ICW, Bahamas, Keys and great loop. I’ve put 353 hours on her since 2018....Not sure it would be right for Canada Alaska
  13. LuvBigBoats

    LuvBigBoats Member

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    Thank you Capt J--I've read a number of your posts and clearly you like the Hatt, which is one of the big reasons I'm considering it even though it's really larger than I'm looking for. Too bad they didn't make something similar but 5'+ smaller (the 60 is too new/expensive). I agree on zero speed stabilization/gyro. One of the boats I'm looking at has it, but it's an OA. Wondering what you don't like about them in that year range, other than the aluminum fuel tanks? Same for the Marlows and Offshores? I like the GB but it's a little narrower than the others, giving a more cramped feeling inside. I like Sunseekers but they tend to have smaller tanks and I get the sense they depreciate faster than the others.

    Any thoughts on Navigators?

    Btw, the Hatt I'm looking at has 3412e engines. Is that more like the C32?

    Thanks JWY--I will post up, definitely. And thanks for the thoughts. They confirm the research I've been doing. One thing I'm wondering is if I should pay much attention to cored vs. solid vs. cored below the waterline. Do you happen to know which mfgrs made which types? I get the sense the Hatts are all solid, but not sure about the others.

    Thanks NYCAP--just to confirm, you don't think the boats I'm looking at are up to the "going North" task and that for going North I should be looking at something like a Nordhavn?

    Koffee--nice boat!
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2021
  14. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    No they all looked capable. Just some are more suitable for long range cruising like your long range plans and others are more suited to the cruising you'll do down south.
  15. JWY

    JWY Senior Member

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    If you're mostly cruising California, then you should go for the speed of a semi-displacment vessel. If your goals really are north of California, then I think you should seriously consider a full displacement. They are safer, heavier, have more range, better fuel consumption rates, and usually have more interior space. If you plan on cruising 9-10 knots, then why not start with a hull that was designed for those speeds rather than making a faster boat perform in a way that is not its ideal.
  16. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    I don't like the OA's of that era due to their seakeeping traits and lack of perfomance for their power.

    The 3412's are 12 cylinder CAT's and forerunner to Cat C30. They're great motor through and through, one of CAT's best as far as reliability. But will drink more, than the 6 cylinder C18.

    The Sunseekers are a very good seaboat. In fact I just delivered one (66' Manhattan) to Guatamala from Fort Lauderdale, and a 52' from Fort Laud to Missouri (up the Tenn-Tomm,mississippi etc.).

    Focusing on fuel capacity is totally meaningless, what you need to focus on is range.

    I also wouldn't rule out another SF in the 60' range as they have great range, speed, and seakeeping abilities over a MY in their size, or something in between like a Maritimo.
  17. LuvBigBoats

    LuvBigBoats Member

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    Thanks again and I hear you. Problem is going north of CA is something I MAY end up doing. Spending weekends at Catalina and in the marina weekending and entertaining are what I will be certain to be doing most of the time. So really comes down to whether the boat I pick is capable of going north safely or if I need to give up that goal, since the full displacement boats I've seen are just not as comfortable for weekending as the other boats.

    Seems like going far north requires a lot more boat than going far south? Need to research that a bit more.

    Thanks. I am thinking about range as well (hence my initial questions about gph on various engines), but seems like thats tough info to get, at least on the semi-displacement or displacement hull boats operating at 9-10 knots. Still digging.

    SFs are out of the running as I have one now and want a much larger bridge than SFs offer (mine has a big bridge for a 43 SF) and more condo-like living accommodations.

    There's a Sunseeker Manhattan out there with Cat C15s I may take a harder look at. Avoiding the Man engines for now and most Sunseekers in my range come with Mans.
  18. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    I think your concern will be dockage more than whether insurance will be a problem jumping 15’ to 20’. While it was years ago, I didn’t have insurance issues going from a 37 express to a 53 MY. Before I got a license.
  19. gr8trn

    gr8trn Senior Member

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    Since you bring up Navigator a couple of times...and the top of your budget will get you two Navigators...
    I have one, she has been up and down the coast from Portland to Victoria and the greater Seattle area.
    Dry ride.
    Rock and roll at anchor, stabilizer would be nice.
    Solid glass is 1" hand laid under water line.
    There are so many up and down the west coast, mostly in Seattle.
    Aluminium fuel tanks that you don't want.
    One would be hard pressed to find more bang for the buck and for a better layout, I look at boats a lot and I will take the Navigator layout over so many.
    Mine is cummins powered and I prefer that over the Volvo that many have.
    This is one of the hulls that Judy points out as in she is a semi displacement planing hull. Is that a thing?
    I cruise at 9-10 knots and burn 5-6ghp on my 50'hull.

    I don't know what a light boat is, my light displacement is 40,000 lbs.

    While out of business for some time now, here is a link to a size of boat that is in your wheel house:
    https://www.navigatoryachts.com/navigator5200.html
  20. LuvBigBoats

    LuvBigBoats Member

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    Good to know--thanks

    Thanks so much for this response. Yes they seem like good bang for the buck. And after looking a while it may be that aluminum tanks are something I'd need to live with, so perhaps just making sure they are replaceable without tearing the boat apart should be a priority. 9-10 knots at 5-6 gph is what I call sipping fuel. Was looking hard at the 57 in San Diego. Has a lot of bells and whistles. I'd probably want to add stabilization of some sort but it is otherwise really well decked out. I'm a bit partial to Cummins since I have the QSC 540s on my boat now and like them a lot, but Cummins seem to be a rarity on the boats I've been looking at. This one has pretty low hp Volvos (only 435 compared to the 500s on some of the smaller ones). Engine rooms seem very roomy on these also.
    P.S. Heard of planing, displacement and semi displacement but never semi displacement planing. Then again I'm a relative newb.