Click for Walker Click for Fendertex Click for Abeking Click for Burger Click for Cheoy Lee

Load Bank?

Discussion in 'Electronics' started by Ken Bracewell, Jan 29, 2013.

You need to be registered and signed in to view this content.
  1. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2004
    Messages:
    8,403
    Location:
    Satsuma, FL
    In the last proboatbuilder, A diesel heater system was discussed. Some orifice or nozzle able to produce a perfect plume on micro drops of diesel and making a blue or white flame. Very small package.
    T that before the scrubber while running.
    Got be cheaper than artificially loading down the gen set. Short AND long term.
  2. Old Phart

    Old Phart Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2011
    Messages:
    1,350
    Location:
    I dunno
    Has there been a final verdict or is the jury still out?
  3. Ken Bracewell

    Ken Bracewell Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2006
    Messages:
    1,352
    Location:
    Somewhere Sunny
    I've contracted Marmot to design and provide an exhaust heater system that will simultaneously and optimally heat the exhaust and load the generator. Production is underway.
  4. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2004
    Messages:
    8,403
    Location:
    Satsuma, FL
    Look forward to more details.
    ,rc
  5. Marmot

    Marmot Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2007
    Messages:
    3,320
    Location:
    9114 S. Central Ave
    I wish I was that good! The solution is an Ecosuperyacht exhaust temperature management system with piping mods by DeAngelo and control system by Eneryacht.

    Any more information would be advertising!
  6. Old Phart

    Old Phart Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2011
    Messages:
    1,350
    Location:
    I dunno
    I'll probably not receive a XXXL Tall something special for this post; but got a little excited reading the following.

    ECOsuperyacht | STP-Palma | ECOsuperyacht USA | Retrofit Exhaust Gas Re-Heater System | products News on ******************


    Still need to Google:

    piping mods by DeAngelo

    control system by Eneryacht.

    Thank you Marmot for sharing.
  7. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2005
    Messages:
    7,390
    Location:
    My Office
    try these guys: Hug Filtersystems AG - We clean exhaust
  8. Beau

    Beau Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2010
    Messages:
    2,090
    Location:
    Cold Spring Harbor, NY
    Folks
    There are a lot a very knowledgable people on this post, but I have to say as a mere weekend boater, I'd be quite upset with my gen mechanic for laying this problem at my feet/wallet. Doesn't this gen guy have any responsibility to make this right?
  9. Old Phart

    Old Phart Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2011
    Messages:
    1,350
    Location:
    I dunno
  10. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2004
    Messages:
    8,403
    Location:
    Satsuma, FL
    Is it fixed yet?

    Looking forward to any follow up or conclusion on this project.
    thx, rc
  11. Ken Bracewell

    Ken Bracewell Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2006
    Messages:
    1,352
    Location:
    Somewhere Sunny
    Gathering Parts

    Hopefully we'll have the system shipped to us this week. We have a trip starting tomorrow through the 9th of March, so installation may have to wait until after that.
    In the meantime we've pulled the filters out of the system because they were clogging terribly in a very short time. My deck crew can't wait to get the heaters!!
  12. Ken Bracewell

    Ken Bracewell Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2006
    Messages:
    1,352
    Location:
    Somewhere Sunny
    Catalyst Injection System

    Has anyone used this? I have a friend who is the lead fleet mechanic and uses this system in a fleet wide industrial application. He swears they are seeing 15-20% savings in fuel, as well as cleaner emissions.
    EcoPro UltraBurn Catalyst
  13. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2004
    Messages:
    8,403
    Location:
    Satsuma, FL
    Let me get this rite;
    You installed another generator set that will still clog your exhaust scrubbers (but have the power for your thruster). A dozen people have suggested from mild to wild ideas and designs in earnest, in responds to your request for help.
    You have removed your exhaust filters so you may operate with what you have installed.
    And your now asking about a Ronco Clean Fuel System (pre-combustion emissions reduction system). Why did you not go ahead and ad the mothballs to your fuel tanks long ago?
  14. Ken Bracewell

    Ken Bracewell Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2006
    Messages:
    1,352
    Location:
    Somewhere Sunny
    Apologies if there is confusion.
    Installed new generators and exhaust scrubbers.
    Not making enough exhaust temp for scrubbers to function
    Asked for mild to wild ideas
    Marmot to the rescue (I hope)
    Waiting on temp regulators for solution to problem at hand
    As a result of looking for a solution I received the suggestion of pre-combustion system and posted as an FYI or F(MY)I for reference [if there is validity, I may consider for main engines] in the same thread because it seems that smart people are following this thread. Perhaps I should have started a new thread about the pre-com system.
    I hope this makes sense
  15. Marmot

    Marmot Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2007
    Messages:
    3,320
    Location:
    9114 S. Central Ave
    Not quite right.

    The bow thruster consumes a great deal of power. A very good way to deliver that power to the thruster is by hydraulic power produced by a generator engine. When the boat needs new generators anyway, it is not unreasonable to size them for the hydraulic power requirement as well as the electrical consumption.

    Bow thrusters are not a constant load and hydraulic power is exclusive of electrical power - if your generator is big enough to make both it's too big for either one alone - and knowing that chronic underloading of generators is famous for making soot, installing particulate filters in the exhaust is a good method to eliminate or reduce soot discharge.

    The only problem with the soot filters is that they require the incoming exhaust gas to reach a certain temperature or they will not "regenerate" or burn off the soot that accumulates on the filter element. To obtain high exhaust temperature requires high loading for a certain percentage of the operating time. When soot isn't burned off it clogs the passages very quickly.

    If the exhaust temperature cannot be raised sufficiently for long enough by normal loading, or even as a last resort by heating the ocean, then heating the exhaust at the inlet to the filters is a good solution. That is what Ken is doing.

    But, after working on this problem on several boats over the past few years, it is a fact that there is no one single "magic bullet" solution to the problem. This isn't the place and I don't have time to write a long dissertation about the why and where of soot production but I can say that it is a product of less than ideal combustion, high lube oil consumption, and fuel quality. Rapidly changing electrical loads, particularly on mechanical generators, are wonderful little soot producers. Load management, not just load level, becomes as important as any other part of the problem.

    There really are fuel additives that work. The cerium oxide nanoparticle based products (only one really because of patent rights) are highly effective at reducing soot production at its source in the combustion chamber and have the positive side effect of reducing the temperature at which a soot filter starts to regenerate.

    I will withhold judgment on the device Ken linked to, there simply isn't enough information to make any kind of evaluation. But, that has never stopped me in the past so ... If it is supposed to be a dosing system and additive supply all in one, the delivery part looks like it might work well on a diesel lawn mower for a short while if you don't mind carrying a lunchbox while mowing the grass. The additive tank seems a bit small.
  16. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    12,291
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    Personally I think having the PTO's come off of the main engines is much better than off of an oversized generator. Hatteras has a PTO on each main engine and it works very well. I think connected to the main engines is the way to go personally.

    On the older 63' MY they had the PTO on a properly sized generator for the boat and when the bow thruster control was activated it shut off electrical production to the boat. It worked well also, because you could run the 2nd generator just for electrical production and leave the 1st off in the ocean. But was a pain because you were relying on that 1 generator for a bow thruster.

    Another thought is to have 2 properly sized generators for the boat, both with PTO's, that shutoff power to the vessel to supply the PTO (if engaged in an emergency situation). And, then just run the 2nd gen, when you need the PTO.

    Running excessively large generators seems like it would always be an issue, between soot from underloading, and generator longevity.....
  17. Ken Bracewell

    Ken Bracewell Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2006
    Messages:
    1,352
    Location:
    Somewhere Sunny
    You may be oversimplifying the problem here.
    The thruster on a 150' boat is much larger than the thruster on a 63' Hatteras. The large generator is required to power the thruster only- the house load is carried by one set, and the thruster is powered by another. We can run the thruster and house load one one in a pinch if we shed load before doing so.
    The other issue is the variance of load. Most times the generators are underloaded, but there are certainly peak times when we need the full capacity of one. Since we have no capacity for load-sharing we have to size the units for max capacity.
    It really comes down to choosing the lesser of evils.
  18. ychtcptn

    ychtcptn Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2005
    Messages:
    395
    Location:
    Lighthouse Point, FL
    Just got an e-mail about this stuff today, could be a solution for those of us with wet exhaust, doesn't solve the problem, but just covers it up. We have a bad problem with unburnt exhaust on the water around the boat from the Gennies. I personally know the guys behind it, but have no interest in the Company, I deleted the contact info and website. I guess you can google clean exhaust for more info.


    INTRODUCING ... clean-exhaust

    The Green Solution to Marine Diesel Exhaust Pollution

    We are looking for test vessels. Please call for details.

    Equipment

    •Installation of an injection nozzle into your raw water cooling line somewhere between exiting the engine and the spray-ring or spray-nozzle
    •Installation of a dosing pump near your generator
    •Installation of a 5 gallon container to draw a calculated amount of “certified green” emulsifier to dose your exhaust before the spray-ring
    •Includes all the parts and 10 gallons of emulsifier for each system.

    Does not include shelves or fixtures to hold pumps or the emulsifier.

    Process
    •Start the generator. clean-exhaust’s purpose built pump automatically and strategically doses the emulsifier
    •The spray-ring mixes the cooling sea water with the emulsifier as it exits the engine
    •The specifically formulated emulsifier neutralizes contaminates, particulates, and product from incomplete burn
    •Both the wet exhaust and dry exhaust exit clean, leaving no floating black oil scum and no black/grey residue on your topsides

    Result

    •Cleaner oceans
    •Cleaner harbors
    •Clean hulls
    •Clean boot top and no black floating sludge

    Test vessel price

    •$6,450 for one clean-exhaust system including 10 gallons of emulsifier plus installation (additional 5 gallon containers of emulsifier $272.00)
    •$5,950 for second or third system at the same time as the first system plus installation
    •Does include all parts and supplies for system
    •Does not include shelfs or fixtures to hold pumps or emulsifier
    •Priceless... clean-exhaust emitting from your vessel toward other yachts and our most precious resource, the sea
  19. Ken Bracewell

    Ken Bracewell Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2006
    Messages:
    1,352
    Location:
    Somewhere Sunny
    This seems like the expensive equivalent of spraying Dawn dish soap on a fuel spill?
  20. Old Phart

    Old Phart Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2011
    Messages:
    1,350
    Location:
    I dunno
    Perhaps, they are using Palmolive, as a workaround. :D