Click for United Click for Llebroc Click for Nordhavn Click for Burger Click for Walker

LOA 10,5 Motorboat

Discussion in 'Yacht Renderings & Plans' started by Tomek, Mar 16, 2015.

You need to be registered and signed in to view this content.
  1. Tomek

    Tomek New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2012
    Messages:
    30
    Location:
    Gdańsk- Poland
    Hello;
    Let me introduce a new design of 10,5 m long motorboat.
    Few things is missing but enought to show it here.
    Please comment, I hope to get pointed things which I can inprove.

    LOA 10,5 m
    Lhull 9,69 m
    Width: 3,11 m
    Depth: 0,49 m
    Displacement (full): 5,962 t
    Speed: 41 węzłów
    FO tank: 790 l
    FW tank 480 l
    Hull Material: Alu-alloy– 5083
    Propulsion: 2x Volvo Penta IPS 350

    zut 2222222 5.jpg zut 2222222 3.jpg zut 2222222.jpg Bez tytułu.jpg
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 16, 2015
  2. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2013
    Messages:
    5,641
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    Why aluminum?
  3. HTMO9

    HTMO9 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2009
    Messages:
    1,363
    Location:
    Europe
    Nice design!

    I would not use IPS drives on a boat of his size. The IPS 350 is using the D4 engine, has a weight of 780 kg each and with IPS, you need two of it. It also adds a lot of storage height to the boat, which would make it obsolete for below deck tender storage.

    I would either use 2 x D3-220 DP Sterndrives (half the weight and no storage height penalty), 2 x D4-300 DP Sterndrives or a single D6-400 DP Sterndrive. All of them would make this little boat almost fly. With 2 x D3-220, you will see at least 40 kts.

    And OB is correct. Why Aloy? A classic like this calls for Mahagony or at least cold molded GRP.
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2015
  4. Tomek

    Tomek New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2012
    Messages:
    30
    Location:
    Gdańsk- Poland
    Thanks for fast respond...
    Why aloy ? Hmm Why not ...
    I have an experience with welded constructions. Probably that is why. Maybe
  5. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2013
    Messages:
    5,641
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    So this is just intended to be one boat, not the introduction of something? So no need for molds and being able to duplicate at a reasonable price?

    If that's the case then why build it? There are plenty of similar boats in the marketplace, although certainly it would be unique in its type being aluminum.

    HTM is also right in that IPS for this length would be very unusual. Might not be bad, but most would either go sterndrive or inboard, either straight or v.

    I guess to back up a moment, I am trying to grasp what you're trying to do. Build one boat for yourself? Design a boat to sell? Build for a manufacturer?
  6. Tomek

    Tomek New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2012
    Messages:
    30
    Location:
    Gdańsk- Poland
    Thanks for fast respond...
    Why aloy ? Hmm Why not ...
    I have an experience with welded constructions. Probably that is why.
    Yes , Your right. Mahagony would be much better, much more classic but I will try to get the similar effect by adding wooden finishing and wooden deck.
    I don't know what is more expensive .. alloy construction plus light putty and then vurnishing or fully wooden construction ? Maybe You guys can advice.

    About engines.
    I will try to put it in to Orca an see what will hapend. Right now I have small trim to aft so ligher engine should fix the problem. thanks

    regards

    2.jpg Bez tytułu.jpg
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 16, 2015
  7. Tomek

    Tomek New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2012
    Messages:
    30
    Location:
    Gdańsk- Poland
    First off all- I am doing it for pleasure with a small perspective to build first one but as one off.
    I have no possibility to run serie production right now.
  8. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2013
    Messages:
    5,641
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    Do you have any experience or knowledge in boat building or will someone who does be assisting you? Is this as a hobby type thing of building more than the desire to actually have a boat?
  9. Tomek

    Tomek New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2012
    Messages:
    30
    Location:
    Gdańsk- Poland
    few years in design office, right now coordinator in shipyard but i work with large vessels as ferries or offshore constructions not with laisure boats. I have many contacts in my area so to manage this kind of one off production can be realize.
    My plan is to build one for sale. If answer from the market will be fine we will see
  10. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2013
    Messages:
    5,641
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    You're building it for sale. Sounds like an ambitious plan. The first thing I would ask myself is why would someone buy it over all the similar boats in the market.
  11. HTMO9

    HTMO9 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2009
    Messages:
    1,363
    Location:
    Europe
    As OB stated, you are competing with some great production and semi custom boats. Riva Iseo or Rivarama, Colombo Romance 32, Graf Ipanema, or at the high end for example, the Meyer Yachtwerft Classic Tender and many others are all beautiful and proven boats. There are more than a dozen little yards in Italy, which are building great examples of this type of boats in wood and GRP.

    The Swedish yard J-craft started a very similar project with some big PR actions at the MYS 2013. A beautiful classic boat with twin IPS 600. Very expensive boat and the company disappeared from the market in the meantime with not very many boats sold at all. Because of size and price, the market was far to small.

    At 10 meters or above, the tender market gets very small and exclusive, because the yacht, which is able to host such a tender, gets pretty big. And people buying such a boat as a stand alone toy, are buying names and exclusivity. It is very hard for a "noname" to enter such a market.

    For my first boat, I would downsize to a maximum of about 7.5 Meters with single sterndrive (like the Riva Iseo or the Ipanema). Built in Mahagoni or cold moulded by using a little, high skilled yard in your country would minimize your risk. There is a lot of great boatbuilding craftmanship in your area. It can be done.

    The sterndrive version would make up more room in the boot, as the engines are bolted directly to the stern and this would additionally solve your trim problem. The boat could be placed on a boat trailer, which would make it more attractive as a stand alone toy and easier for you to show it around.

    Again, a very nice design and great renderings but try to stay realistic. Designing and building a beautiful 30 ft boat does not mean, it will sell automatically.

    Btw, you need a CE certification to sell it, unless you call it a homebuild.
  12. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2004
    Messages:
    8,247
    Location:
    Satsuma, FL
    On the other hand;
    What a nice design. I am sure many hours were spent drawing, drafting, some real logic applied on f f f (form, fit, function). I wish I could put ideas from my mind on paper or a computer screen. A challenge you have done on your own. You may have learned a lot just to get here. Hard work shared with the world.

    Then the kick;
    It's hard to compete in this era with a close dup of what is already out there. The market may / may not appreciate the alloy idea. As the above comments have probably bummed you a bit, don't give up..
    I would not build out of pocket though, find some OPM that shares your dreams.

    Keep drawing,
    rc
  13. Tomek

    Tomek New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2012
    Messages:
    30
    Location:
    Gdańsk- Poland
    Please note that all of this are assuptions and very first stage of any serious steps.
    I hope that when alu hull makers send me an offers I would say that might be chance to give very competitive price.
    In Poland price of production is much lower than in western countries and here I see chance.
    We will see.
  14. Tomek

    Tomek New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2012
    Messages:
    30
    Location:
    Gdańsk- Poland


    Hmm your right...
    Maybe I should design something smaller like You say- about 7 - max 8 m LOA.
    It is a bit depressing but true. I don't want to spend all of money and take a risk with selling. Probably stay with 10 m long boat in garage :(
    What I planned was to built one, sell, built one, sell ....
    I am unhappy to hear that there is practicly no place for one off, custom design products.

    Thanks for all comments- It is really value for me.
  15. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2013
    Messages:
    5,641
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    Do you know of a builder in Poland, or elsewhere, building aluminum boats in that size range?

    The problem generally with one off, custom boats is the cost vs. an equivalent production boat. As a first time builder, it will be very difficult for you to estimate your costs, especially the time and labor involved.
  16. HTMO9

    HTMO9 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2009
    Messages:
    1,363
    Location:
    Europe
    Tomek, please do not get me misunderstood. I do not want to discourage you by any means. Your design skills are great and your example is beautiful. If the naval architecture with all its facets like choice of materials and building methods, hydronamics, propulsion, electrics, etc. gets completed, your boat could be built.

    Also welded aluminium would be the easiest (and may be cheapest) building material for your boat, IMO it is not the the prefered material for a classic boat, at least from the potential customer point of view. Besides AMG, I am most probably the biggest IPS fan on this forum but again, I do believe, the market in this segment is very reluctant to accept IPS. Most classics are either V-drive with shaft and prop (Riva) or sterndrive. Even waterjets are more common than IPS in this segment.

    Remember, you are competing with boats of this couleur:

    Aquariva.JPG
    Iseo.JPG ROMANCE.JPG
    Ipanema.JPG

    Try to minimize your personal risk by downsizing the project and share it with a small, high skilled boatbuilder from your local area. I do not know, if venture or startup capital is available in poland, I would at least ask for it. If the first boat has found its buyer, you can upscale any time.

    Two little comments on your design (only a matter of personal taste, no criticism): Think about the design of the windscreen, the cutoff at the rear of the windscreen disturbs the otherwise fluent lines and try to integrate the anker more into the bow (like on the Iseo for example). He is to prominent for such a small boat .

    If you are giving it a try, good luck.
  17. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2013
    Messages:
    5,641
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    Actually, if you're determined to use aluminum, a good boat to start the learning process with would be 20' or less aluminum fishing boat with an outboard. Smaller investment, should be able to be sold without too much of a loss. Allow you to then understand the challenges of the next boat.
  18. Tomek

    Tomek New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2012
    Messages:
    30
    Location:
    Gdańsk- Poland
    mpm 2 5.jpg mpm 2 5.jpg
    After Your sugestions, I made few modifications including change of fairing and hull material in to the laminate.
    This is an effect.
    About the engines - not any more IPS. It is twice more expensive than regular Z from Yanmar or Mercrusier... and lighter.

    Do You think that this kind of boat should have glass fairing or plastic ?
    Regards
  19. FeBo

    FeBo New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2015
    Messages:
    88
    Location:
    Lake Como, Italy
  20. Tomek

    Tomek New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2012
    Messages:
    30
    Location:
    Gdańsk- Poland
    Yes very nice.
    But what regarding to?