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Living on a Yacht?

Discussion in 'Popular Yacht Topics' started by DragonRyu, May 11, 2006.

  1. brian eiland

    brian eiland Senior Member

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    There is more and more of this difficulity with permits to live aboard in a number of states in the US. I can understand a need to regulate it to some std, but not to just blanket outlaw it totally.

    I also have a friend who has experienced the problem with proper ownership papers to land in Panama.

    In Thailand a foreigner can NOT own better than 49% of land. He (She) must own it co-op with a Thai partner. Watch out if the Thai partner splits with you.

    I'll be interested to see what you find for 'floating rates' in DR.
  2. brian eiland

    brian eiland Senior Member

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    Floating Accomodations

    It just may turn out to be easier to live on a vessel than a floating home/cottage. At least you are more 'normal' in the eyes of the law.

    But I'm still interested in the idea of a 'floating home/cottage. I even attended the International Homebuilders Show this past Jan in Orlando. I went to research light weight buildind materials that could be utilized to build such a 'vessel'. i came away with LOTS of interesting material. Unfortuntionally I took a really bad fall down some steps as I left the first day of the show, and was unable to go back the second day. Very disappointed as I only covered about 1/4 of the exhibits.

    I'm working on a few sketches and may post something when I get thru with a bunch of other things that need attending more immeadiatly.

    Here is a Trumpy style houseboat that was recently advertised online...was somewhat tempting

    Attached Files:

  3. zudnic

    zudnic Senior Member

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    I'm somewhat familiar with Thailand, a family friend and business associate does some other projects in that country. All though the DR does not have the partnership, does have problems with title and legal system that can be anti-foreigner. To me in foreign countries and especially third world developing nations, a boat just makes better sense. Either full time or part as a vacation place.
  4. zudnic

    zudnic Senior Member

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    I was discussing this plan with a lawyer as "friends". I'm now selling my Canadian house and cutting all ties to this country to become a non resident. According to the Canadian Revenue Agency (CRA same as IRS):

    So by buying a boat and floating around the Caribbean, my "world" income would not be subjected to Canadian income tax. I'm checking with accountant and lawyer Tuesday on how to legally live tax free abroad on a boat. :D
  5. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    What address do you intend to use in registering your boat, driver's license and to have your mail and pension sent to? You'll of course have to have a bank account somewhere. There's a tax man somewhere who will ask that. Make sure you don't spend more trying to hide your income than you'd pay in taxes. Then again, you could say 'Since I earned the money, I should support my country by paying my fair share'. I know, LOL. Good luck.
  6. zudnic

    zudnic Senior Member

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    It became a topic at dinner last night because my work is doing a project in the DR. I was also living in Washington State and at that time had no Canadian assets. Rev Canada automatically made me a non resident when I filed with my U.S address. Ended up paying a lower rate on my Canadian income. So I want to better plan this non resident loophole instead of just receiving it automatically.
  7. zudnic

    zudnic Senior Member

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    Met with tax lawyer and their accountant. Since 2002 a lot of the loopholes have been kind of closed off. Tax treaties, etcetera. Before it was pretty easy for Canadians to live "offshore" and pay no income tax. Still a little fuzzy on the details, lawyers tend to make things more complicated so you need them. But just because Canadians need to declare global income on their tax returns and foreign assets over $100,000 (unless the house is for personnel use, you could keep a DR residence or boat secret). Doesn't mean you'll pay taxes on that global income even if your a resident for tax purposes. To become a non-resident for tax purpose the U.S is the easiest. The tax havens with no income and capital gains taxes are the hardest. The residence ties that make you a resident of Canada for tax purposes are increased when no tax or very minimal. Hence why America is the easiest and most times Canada will automatically give you non resident status for tax purposes. For the most part the reported of global income and assets is for anti-money laundering purposes. Bi-product just makes legal tax avoidance more complicated, but not impossible.
  8. brian eiland

    brian eiland Senior Member

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    Interesting that you think it is so much easier for a USA individual. I've found that they even hound you for funds you make working entirely out of the country.

    In contrast we have many corporations that do their PRIMARY business in America, but set up a foreign office so they can avoid a lot of the US taxes.

    The TV show 60-Minutes did an interesting program recently on this situation.
    http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7360934n

    I guess the individual just doesn't have the power to hire all that legal team that the corporations employ.
  9. brian eiland

    brian eiland Senior Member

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    Iinteresting that the fellow who started this subject thread that has garnered lots of attention has never made another contribution to it??....was it just a fleeting thought he had?
  10. 'RoundTheHorn

    'RoundTheHorn Senior Member

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    Brian,

    I think his statement means that for a Canadian citizen seeking non-resident status, the easiest country used to establish his non-Canadian residency is the US since it is NOT one of those tax haven countries he was speaking about. He states that the CRA will look at a tax haven country with greater suspicion than the US and consider him more to be "living abroad" rather than ducking his taxes if he uses a US address. Zudnic, if I have misinterpreted your meaning, please correct me.
  11. zudnic

    zudnic Senior Member

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    Still looking at it and the rules are sketchy. Old days you sold all your Canadian assets and just moved anywhere. Paid an exit tax of 23% and no future income taxes, as long as you stayed out of Canada for 183 days per year and had no assets/income in the country. They now look instead make you move to another place with a tax treaty. You need to become a resident and pay taxes into your new country. Tax havens they'll even look at social contacts in Canada and consider you still tied as a Canadian resident.

    To be 100% tax free Id basically need to renounce citizenship.
  12. brian eiland

    brian eiland Senior Member

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    Forgot about this posting I made awhile back. I'm over in Thailand again, and this 'floating cottage/house' idea has resurfaced. I visited a few locations that had some 'floating rafts' and houses, and took a number of photos. I've also joined a few forums over in Thailand in search of subject matter there.
    Living On A Houseboat ? Anyone Doing It? - Page 2 - General topics - Thailand Forum

    You will probably hear more from me on this subject if anyone is interested. I also posted some newer links to some floating resorts in Thailand over here.
    http://www.yachtforums.com/forums/general-yachting-discussion/5554-bali-thai-style-houseboat-3.html
  13. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Back in the 1950s there was a TV show about a family who had a houseboat and squated on a beach in the Florida Keys. I credit that show with really starting the dream that continues today. Now in some places around the world I'm sure it can work out cheap, generally speaking it's neiither cheap nor convenient. Start with the storage situation. It takes only a quick stop at a supermarket to realize that you'll often pay near double buying supplies in small quanities. Most marinas charge more than the utilities for your electric. If you're in an area that get's cold, heat can become an issue as well as even getting water to your boat. Then there dockage. Like any housing, what you pay depends on how nice you want to live. And of course don't forget the cost of maintaining your vessel.

    You can save money depending on how spartan you're willing to live, but nothing comes without a price. It's really more of a lifestyle choice.
  14. HTMO9

    HTMO9 Senior Member

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    Living on a yacht

    I think it is a big difference whether you permanently live on what I would call an "active boat" or just a floating home (house boat). A kind of barge, retired and converted commercial boat or a yacht with all neccessary equipment to travel around, even to be taken to the open sea, is a total different story. With the later version, I have to agree with NYCAP on all his points. It can be very expensive, if the boat does not move around enough and it will be costly if it moves around a lot. And you need a pretty large yacht to get that amount of "elbow clearance" you would like at home.

    But a floating home can be a very cosy living area and oasis of tranquility. As long as the prerequisit is only the theoretical possibility of relocation (by tow) and not instant readiness and seaworthiness, costs can be held down to a reasonable level.

    An old friend of mine from school got drawn by his girlfriend to Amsterdam after university and has been living ever since on one of those floating homes as an artist. I visit him as often as I can, whenever I am in Amsterdam. He keeps saying, as long as nobody will sink his home, he will die on his boat one day :D.

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  15. brian eiland

    brian eiland Senior Member

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    Yes, I agree
  16. brian eiland

    brian eiland Senior Member

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  17. NEO56

    NEO56 Member

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    I really enjoyed this thread, but I do have to put my two cents in. Buying a boat to live aboard can't be rationalized, just like buying a motor home, plane, or a new Bentley. It's just something you have to do.

    I had the opportunity to live aboard a 56 foot trawler and cruise the Bahamas for summer vacation my last two years of high school, with a buddy of mine who was my Coast Guard Auxiliary buddy (we borrowed his Dad's trawler) and right then and there I decided that some day I would make enough money to live aboard full time. It's a life choice for people who absolutely love being on the water and everything about it. It's been the driving force in my life. I'm upset that it's taken so long to get to a financial point where I can live my dream. But somebody a long time ago, said "The day you quit your dreams, is the day you start dying."

    I really don't think you can put "numbers" on your passion...and that's what it has to be is a passion...forget the "money" issues...life is short, make yourself happy.
  18. V1Rotate

    V1Rotate New Member

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    Good evening all, I have recently begun a new venture and will be relocating indefinitely.

    All the small rentals in the area are $2800+/mo. My wife and I always thought it'd be nice to live on a yacht. So far, my numbers show that a person could live aboard something like a Bayliner 4788 for less than the rent (comparing payments + a little mx costs) against rent. Not to mention, sadly, the boat would be bigger than some of these 1bd/1br dens I'm finding.

    We are young, no kids, no pets. Obviously a boat is going to cost more than just the acquisition. Is there a rough handed idea of what a boat will cost to operate per annum?

    On airplanes, taking hourly fuel burn and multiplying by 3-4 usually gives a good idea as to what the total hourly cost per year will be based on about 150 hours/year. Just wondering if boats are the same way.

    Never owned a boat, but I think with time and mentoring, I could figure it out.

    I apologize is my post is grossly naive, but it just seems like it could possibly pencil out. I am considering intangible benefits like living on the water instead of near. No grass to maintain, can leave the harbor for the weekend, etc.

    As an aside, how are Bayliner 4788's? Good for this mission profile? Any Intel there?

    Thanks everyone:
  19. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    You should look at the cost of dockage, insurance, haulout and utilities and be aware that every time you enter a store that has marine anywhere in its name you will be paying a premium for anything you buy before deciding it is the best way to go.
  20. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    Bayliner 4788's have a huge number of very happy owners. It's an excellent boat for living aboard as it's roomy and very utilitarian.

    However, you're also naive as reflected by "Never owned a boat, but I think with time and mentoring, I could figure it out." Figuring it out comes with a cost too and doesn't just magically happen. It requires hiring someone to teach, taking some courses, and paying for a lot of the work to be done.

    You need to start developing a budget just to see that you understand all the costs involved. Don't overlook things like insurance, property taxes (high in California), bottom cleaning, periodically painting the hull, eventual major rebuild of engines. Still in your area with the cost of housing it can be a good deal. As to comparison to an apartment, a 4788 will compare with perhaps a 600 sq ft apartment interior wise, but have much more outdoor space.