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Lifeless genset

Discussion in 'Generators' started by libertyac, Feb 27, 2009.

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  1. libertyac

    libertyac New Member

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    I have Kilo-Pak 60 which has been inactive for 3 yrs. The J-D runs fine but shows no life from the important end.
    I'm told I can excite it(takes all kinds, I guess) but can't identify anything marked F1 and F2.
    The circuit board at the end is the Volt. Reg. I guess.
    Any ideas??

    Attached Files:

  2. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    Hi,

    I would expect anything marked F 1 or F 2 on an electrical drawing to be Fuses. I do not see any fuses in that photo.
  3. libertyac

    libertyac New Member

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    Thanks Kiwi
    No fuses, no breaker on this Baby. Just got a wiring diagram from K-P, so lets see what that does to help.
  4. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    Hi,

    What protection does it have for Overcurrent?

    Looking at that photo what appears to be metal bits in the dust could be some of the reason it doesn't go
  5. wdrzal

    wdrzal Senior Member

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    Those 2 Black U shaped wires in bottom right may be "fusable links" a specfic type of wire to blow @ a set amperage. I'd check them for electrical continuity . I don't see any other reason why they would be there.
  6. TedZ

    TedZ New Member

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    Lifeless generator

    F1 & F2 on the drawing are generally field wires, identified because of the need to excite the genny via that wiring.

    The black wires are jumpers, likely for different voltages.

    As to why the genny doesn't produce power, that is a more complex issue. I would definitely excite it. You need to read the instructions carefully to accomplish this correctly. If that doesn't work, checking the Voltage Regulator is next. Bad diodes there can be easily fixed. Replacing the board if other components are bad may be necessary. Checking continuity on the rotor and stator is easy and should be described in the manual. If either is bad, a new gen end is warranted if you are going to fix the genny. Most people warn against rewinds of any sort.

    Newage is an excellent gen end and many techs are familiar with it. They are called Stanford Newage now and very good.

    Believe it or not, if it has been sitting around and is damp and it excites, the manual may allow shorting the output and starting the generator for maybe 30 seconds. That drys windings and is a standard procedure on some gennys shipped from overseas on boats.

    Don't waste time looking for fuses or breakers. If they are there and there likely are none, they will be obvious. Gennys are like transformers, shorting the secondary will not fault the primary, they simply melt down.

    That is about it. Good luck.

    Ted
  7. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    Hi,

    TedZ =I see in your profile that you have an electrical background.

    Like some others who post here you seem happy to give sweeping statements about the subject you are posting on.

    AC Power can be deadly and can cause a great deal of damage when treated carelessly.

    Pleas take a look here and tell me what the items carrying an F number

    http://www.imprint-aa.com/BMPuter/wiring_diagram.jpg

    This is a method of identifying fuses I am familiar with seeing on drawings.

    Suggesting that it is simply a melt down of the secondary side of a genset or transformer that occurs with a prolonged dead short without giving any sort of precautionary message is very misleading and down right dangerous at best.

    Many people who come here looking for help do so with an absolute minimum of subject knowledge and as such all precautions and hazards should also be pointed out along with the rest of the suggested procedure.
  8. TedZ

    TedZ New Member

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    In cars the F's are fuses. In generators, and i install from a few kw to 1000 kw or more, they are not fuses. The nomenclature from one electrical drawing to another, especially in different fields, is seldom consistent.

    I'm sorry if you don't realize that you cannot blow a transformer primary fuse, if any, by shorting the secondary. That was an example of a similar issue that occurs in generators. They are not protected like you might wish.

    Personally i think pointing out that these things will get hot, drip varnish and smell very bad, i.e. a meltdown, is educating folk about what can go wrong. I have never seen anyone hurt in these instances but if it is something that needs to be said i will, "be careful and make sure your equipment has a good ground." I kind of assume that folks on boats are aware of the issues when dealing with the AC voltage but i am happy to make the point. ANYTHING TO IMPROVE SAFETY.

    From what i have seen on this forum, there are some very smart people. When posting a question on AC power supply or generation it would not be a bad idea to "confess" your expertise at the beginning...many folks do. If a poster says, "when it comes to electricity i have burned three houses down working on the wiring" obviously you are going to tailor your advice accordingly.

    Please don't take any of the above as indicating i am not very appreciative of your constructive criticism. I do this all of the time and i don't want my advice to have any complacency.

    Ted
  9. C4ENG

    C4ENG Senior Member

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    I asked a mechanic that question a while back while as he was working on my gens. A previous engineer was telling me he had to excite the coils some times on this one gen. The mechanic told me that if you need to excite the coils then you have a seriuos problem, like a failure in the winding insulation. The charge had to go some where and where did it go and how? He thinks the previuos engineer lied to me. The mechanic said that you would have to excite the gen each time if it was loosing it's charge some how..
  10. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    my Norpro 18 uses a Marathon Alternator, its manual has a procedure to flash the windings on initial install or whenever needed. Never had to do it but maybe something that needs to be done after log periods of inactivity? not sure if it applies to all alternators or just to that specific type.
  11. brianwill

    brianwill New Member

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    The WARNING says it all. Recommend you turn this over to a marine electrical engineer.
  12. Marmot

    Marmot Senior Member

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    And what "charge" might that be chiefy? What does the generator do when it gets excited? :rolleyes: