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License question?

Discussion in 'Licensing & Education' started by Capt.Ryan, Jan 12, 2010.

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  1. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Semantics, got ya. Yes we are talking about "inspected" vessels which is why I originally used the term commercial status to avoid that confusion. And yes, you can refuse a USCG "inspection" just as you can refuse a search of you car without probable cause, but that refusal will constitute "suspicious" behavior thereby giving probable cause justifying a search in both cases. (Catch 22)
  2. Marmot

    Marmot Senior Member

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    I do believe that if you are running a boat with paying passengers under the privileges of your license and refuse to provide the CG with the documents they demand you will find yourself being more than searched.

    And the differences are not semantic, they are very real and they are part of what anyone calling himself a professional mariner should know ... but we have been there before. ;)
  3. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    It's a bit late right now. I'll mail my 5th issue license back to the CG tomorrow if that's OK with you.
  4. Capt.Ryan

    Capt.Ryan New Member

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    As an operator of a 6 pack charter boat I will tell you that we are not required to be inspected each year. We are required to have the necessary safety equipment on board which meets the CG regulations for the size of our commercial boat (regulations differ based on length of boat). Many of us get the complimentary safety inspection done by the CG auxiliary. They give a sticker with the year of inspection and this helps in the case that you are boarded (speeds up CG inspection). I guess that they feel that if you went through the complimentary inspection already, that you will have all required equipment on board still. We do get checked periodically and some more than others.

    BMS, as you stated many charter guys are out and will be going out of business with the current regulations. There are more that are proposed that could ruin charter, recreational, and commercial fishing in many areas. I urge all of you who fish or eat fish, to read up on the proposed bans to bottom fishing on the East Coast and sign some of the petitions that are circulating or go to the rally in DC next week. If these closures occur it will effect everyone. Thanks
  5. BMS

    BMS Senior Member

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    You are right Marmot. When you are boarded it is to ensure your compliance with federal laws and regulations. What Marmot said about not providing the documents they demand or safety items they need to see they can terminate your voyage or worse yet if you are being stuborn and just don't want to comply you could be charged with impeding a federal boarding. All they usually want to see on an OUPV boat is your PFDs a throwable etc. etc. You will also find that being boarded is a pain in the neck for you can be exciting to your customers.
  6. BMS

    BMS Senior Member

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    And as NYCAP was saying you can refuse a voluntary inspection if you are an OUPV boat. You cannot refuse to be boarded by the CG as they are two different things, unless you are foriegn flagged in international waters and the US and your country have no agreement on it.
  7. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    You may have gone off on Marmots tangent. He tried to imply that OUPV vessels must be inspected. I pointed out that what he was pointing to was the voluntary inspection of the OUPV vessels that their owners can request. What you're referring to in the normal safety boardings/inspections conducted to any recreational vessel not engaged in commerce. Whether or not you have the legal right to refuse the normal safety inspection is irrelevant. You refuse and you've just given provocation for a less friendly inspection. Wouldn't want to go down that road.
  8. BMS

    BMS Senior Member

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    No I wouldn't want to go down that road either. What do you guys think about some sort of formal inspection for these boats??? It seems that every other operation out there earning a living off of their boat has to be inspected either by the USCG or some other agency. Commercial fishing, T&K boats, even assistance towing will need it next year. I know that they are called OUPV but I have seen some less than squared away boats out there. What do you all think, yes or no? I am undecided
  9. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Big NO! If you're out in Montauk some day look at a boat called Cricket. She looks like, shall we say, a very heavily fished boat. She does carry all required safety equipement and then some and has always managed to get back in to shore skippered by a grumbly old guy who smelled like fish named Frank Mundas (Jaws). Add another layer of regulations and you'll only have boats that cost 20K a day to charter because these people won't be able to afford to stay in business. On the up side you'll have college educated captains looking nice in their spiffy uniforms. You just won't catch fish.
  10. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    Hi,

    Ed - Is Frank Mundus still alive and kicking?
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2010
  11. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Probably still kicking, but unfortunatley he passed, I believe some time last summer. BTW, for those not familiar, what he knew about the CFRs you could fit in a thimble. Personally, I'd go anywhere in anything with him in total confidence that I'd either live through it or have fun dying.:D
  12. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    Hi,

    I have a signed copy of his book - Sportfishing for Sharks.

    I bought it from Homeport in St Thomas about 25 yrs ago because it had good photos, I read it a few years later.

    I will pass it on to my kids as it is an outstanding read for anyone associated with the sea.
  13. Henning

    Henning Senior Member

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    Thing is, there's a lot more to being master than just seamanship and driving a boat. The vessel master's primary duty is to insulate the owner from liability.... IOW, you not only have to keep everybody and the vessel safe, you also have to keep it all legal. Consider all that that encompasses and you'll understand than one needs a thorough knowledge of all the laws one is subject to wherever one goes.
  14. BMS

    BMS Senior Member

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    I agree. Just wanted to see what you other guys thought.
  15. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Most 6 packers are the owners. What they need to know is where the fish are and how to catch them. They usually know their boats and how to run them very intimately and well. Most are pretty good at first aid & CPR as well. Plenty of practice since many are retired cops, FD or EMTs. In other words, they know what they need to know and happen to run a dangerous profession rather safely. They'll never be qualified to run a mega, but they know what they need to and are pretty good at what they do. What they don't need and won't put up with are more regulations or expense.
  16. Henning

    Henning Senior Member

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    Well then they better get ready to quit, because they're about to get hit with both. Also not that an OUPV is an Operators rather than a Masters ticket. Looks like a lot of things are going to change in the next 2 years....
  17. Hot Rod

    Hot Rod New Member

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    What things are going to change in the next 2 years?
  18. Henning

    Henning Senior Member

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    Requirements for all US Licenses to come into full compliance with STCW 95.
  19. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    The boats are 6 packs, but very few of the captains are. Those that are actually working with OUPV licenses are either moving up or out so I don't think that will have much effect. Personally, I've never met a 6 packer running anything beyond a marina launch.
  20. Henning

    Henning Senior Member

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    How do you figure it will have no effect? EVERYBODY holding a US license < Unlimited grade will likely be effected. I just talked to the guy who handles my file the the Houston REC the other day about what's I'll have to do in 2 years on my next renewal, and he wasn't sure yet as everything is still being hashed out. I asked if the classes beyond what the USCG had previously required that I did for obtaining the MCA COEC would count, and he said that as long as they have an STCW # on them that they should. Since I did my Advanced Firefighting before the advent of the STCW rules coming into effect, I may have to redo that, but that's fine, I like fire class.:D Still considering whether to renew my HAZWHOPPER, that's boring as heck. It'll be interesting to see. Very likely I'll have to do STCW Stability, they're still trying to figure that one out, and a couple other courses.