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License question?

Discussion in 'Licensing & Education' started by Capt.Ryan, Jan 12, 2010.

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  1. Capt.Ryan

    Capt.Ryan New Member

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    To operate a scenic cruise trip with a basic OUPV 6 pack license, am I still limited to six people or is it up to the capacity of my boat?
    Thanks
  2. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    You are limited to running 6 people (which I believe is now 12 people.) BUT, if you are operating a scenic tour boat that is certified by the USCG to a capacity, you need a license for the proper Gross Registered Tons that the vessel is certified/inspected for.
  3. Capt.Ryan

    Capt.Ryan New Member

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    Sorry let me clarify. I would be running them on my charter boat which is not inspected with my OUPV license. I have emailed CG but have yet to receive a response and have not been able to find any info on their website.
  4. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    Then you are limited to whatever a OUPV license currently covers......6 passangers.......although I think that has changed to 12 passangers now.....
  5. Henning

    Henning Senior Member

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    Whichever is lesser, and actually, it can be argued you are not licensed to operate that boat at all regardless when carrying any passengers. It is an Inspected Passenger Vessel, you are licensed only for UNinspected Passenger Vessel. If anyone can find me in the CFRs where that statement is incorrect, please post it. I remember this same situation 20 years ago and no one could get the question answered any other way.
  6. Henning

    Henning Senior Member

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    I believe the 12 passengers refers to Uninspected Passenger Vessels of greater than 100grt, below that is still 6. However, I believe the OUPV license is still restricted to 25grt, so regardless he would be still restricted to 6. At least that's my take on what they did a couple of years back. If there's recent changes to the OUPV license, please correct me.
  7. Henning

    Henning Senior Member

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    If your vessel isn't inspected, you can take 6 people. Check with your insurance guy to see if you think it'll be worthwhile.
  8. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    I'm not sure myself......but I think the 12 passengers is over 50 tons.........but nonetheless, I don't know the answer......but if the vessel is inspected for 25 passengers and is 48 tons, he would need to have a 50 ton license to operate it.......or register it un-inspected....
  9. Capt.Ryan

    Capt.Ryan New Member

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    Already insured as a charter boat, so that doesn't matter as for insurance. I would be staying in intracoastal waterway and may poke my nose out the inlet. Haven't been able to get a concrete answer.
  10. Henning

    Henning Senior Member

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    If the question is because the data tag specifies less than 7 people, you will be restricted to total persons on board as dictated by the manufacturers data tag which is governed by the USCG rules. If the data tag reads above 7 people, you are restricted to 6 paying passengers and "reasonable" crew.

    It's hard to answer your question while guessing at what you're asking about. What is the boat? BTW, since you hold the license, you really should know this subject inside and out.
  11. Marmot

    Marmot Senior Member

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    I wish there was a shaking head smiley ...

    For a bunch of Sons of Magellan the level of knowledge of the regs that control how you make your living is nothing short of pathetic.

    So let this cynical engineer provide the good captain with a link to a collection of the information:

    http://www.northeastcharterboatcaptainsassociation.completewebpages.com/f/UPV_(6_PACK)_WORKBOOK.pdf

    In all fairness, the CG is hopeless at providing guidance on the subjects and questions that make up probably 80 percent of what their "customers" want and need. This is probably because there aren't many coasties who know or even care until they can make a "law enforcement" issue out of a violation they need to add to their quota. The fact that the charter association had to go to this length to provide the information shows that the CG fails at providiing what is needed in a manner that its "customers" can use.
  12. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    definitely need a shaking head smiley for this one! :)

    an OUPV/six pack is limited to 6 passengers. there is nothign grey about that, it's as clear cut as regulations can be. The boat or location is irrelevant.

    not sure what a "data tag" is supposed to be! if it refers to the manufacturer data plate which on small outboard boats states a max. capacity then it can obviously further limit the number of passengers you can take but can anyone really imagine a charter boat that small (probably under 16') ? it's a non issue.

    the only grey area, which doesnt' come into play here, are bareboat charters yachts where the charterer contracts the crew separately. In that case, you can have up to 12 passengers on a non inspected vessel as long as the captain holds a master license.

    but a OUPV/6pack is always limited to 6 passengers.

    actually, i think the USCG site is pretty clear when it comes to these issues, at least as clear as one can expect from a .gov or .mil site :)
    http://www.uscg.mil/nmc/cb_capt.asp
  13. Marmot

    Marmot Senior Member

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    But it takes considerable experience working with the regs to be able to drill down to the relevant sections and most people who don't work with them nearly constantly are at a loss to even know where to start looking.

    While I think it is not optional that someone with a licence must have a working knowledge of the regs that govern their activities, for their own good if nothing else, the CG doesn't make it easy.

    Considering how many people are employed by the CG to write regs, tests, nvics, and generally perch in DC administrating things that they feel need ministering, they could have long ago provided something like that charter boat association came up with. If nothing else it would save someone at some CG office a thousand phone calls and emails a day.

    If you look around the professional mariner forums on the net you will find that the vast majority of topics have to do with interpretation of CG regs, especially certification issues. Again, in defence of those I slammed for not knowing their own business, if you ask 3 CG experts at the office charged with responsibility for the question, you will get 4 different answers.
  14. Capt.Ryan

    Capt.Ryan New Member

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    Thanks for the responses. I have held an OUPV license for 2 years and have always thought it to be true that I was limited to 6 max paying customers plus crew. This being said, I have been told by numerous Captains(Masters and OUPV license holders) and people in the industry that if I choose to do scenic cruises that I could take as many as the boat had the capacity for. I have argued this and have tried to get DEFINITE clarification on this issue.

    Thank you Pascal for the link. It clearly shows that to operate with more than 6 paying passengers on board, Captain would need a Masters License at a minimum.

    Still find it remarkable that I have sent this question to the CG and have yet to receive a reply.
  15. Marmot

    Marmot Senior Member

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    You're new at this aren't you? ;)
  16. Capt.Ryan

    Capt.Ryan New Member

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    Not new at this, and guess not really surprised by the CG. Seems like their priorities have shifted more and more each year. I contacted them this past summer about spot fisherman blocking intracoastal waterway (anchored in the channel, tethered to navigational aids, etc) and was told that there was nothing they could do about it and to contact the marine patrol. Later the same day I watched as they weaved their way through the boats without saying a word to any of them. One of the boats was actually anchored dead center in the channel. Surprised they haven't got back to me, No, just more astonished of the haphazard way they are operating.
  17. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    condering where you're from i guess that was either at Shallottes or Lockwoods? when i came down last fall there were so many of them and so close that they had to lift their poles so that i coudl go thru. couple of them had to shove off my hull... i called CG Station Oak Island, they said they were going to send a boat...
  18. Capt.Ryan

    Capt.Ryan New Member

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    Pascal you are dead on with the area, it was the second one. The CG have sent boats down but don't do anything. I called and asked them if it was legal to anchor in the waterway(which I knew it wasn't) and they replied that it was illegal. So I asked them why their CG boat came through that area without saying a word, and their response was, they didn't have the time to keep them out of that area. Time! They were there and still said nothing to them about it. If they would simply come by and warn people first then start writing tickets after, it would solve the situation. It is a problem, during that time of year there are numerous snowbirds heading south on the waterway not to mention barges and other commercial traffic. It is going to be a big problem when someone gets hurt due to a wake from one of these larger boats or gets hit because a larger vessel won't be able to maneuver around them.
  19. Marmot

    Marmot Senior Member

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    The CG needs to get some of those San Diego trained RIB drivers and turn them loose in that area. :(
  20. Henning

    Henning Senior Member

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    I don't know what morons you've been talking to, but unless the vessel is an Inspected Passenger Vessel, it is restricted to either 6 or 12 paying passengers depending on size. It is never more. Your OUPV license is good for 6 paying passengers, never more without specific authorization from the OCMI. There is under the auspices of National Defense specific individual waivers available under CFR 46-6.01 & 33-19.01, but that wouldn't be applicable to you.

    Everything concerning the operation of Uninspected Passenger Vessels can be found here. There is a special permit available under 46-26.03-6 that may apply to you, but requires specific application per event, 4 events per year maximum and is up to the OCMI to issue or not.

    You, holding a license that leaves you with liability, criminally, civilly, and administratively should be well versed in not only the common rules applicable, but how to research the answers to your own questions within the CFRs. It's time for you to step up to the plate and educate yourself into being a competent operator. Handling a boat is only a small fraction of the job. You have to know all this stuff.

    The reason the CG isn't answering your question is because they shouldn't have to. Do your own homework like a professional that you are trying to be.