Discussion in 'General Yachting Discussion' started by Capt J, Jan 1, 2020.
Thank you for stating this. We can't let this forum become another Facebook.
Rest assured I see all the possible boating issues involved, just as I do on the recently rescued sailors. To me one situation where the boating aspect got completely lost was Jose Fernandez's death. It was tragic, but the causes were serious issues and somehow tended to get lost in praising him as a hero.
We don't know all the causes of this most recent accident but we suspect the typical. Not all that different from the Kevin O'Leary's wife's accident in Canada except this time the boat didn't plow into another boat causing death.
We can say we feel for the victims and at the same time discuss the boating issues and lessons to be learned, while recognizing those needing to learn them are highly unlikely to ever read the posts here.
We don't know yet that alcohol was involved, but on the road the two biggest causes of accidents are speed and alcohol. The water isn't all that much different. We don't do enough in policing driving under the influence on the road or in the water.
Are you saying expressing our sympathy and concerns is a horrible thing to do? Or what are you saying, if not that?
You reminded me to check the outcome of that..... Lots of litigation still pending. She was charged with a “regulatory offense under the shipping act.” with a max fine of 10K. Documents reveal she was tested for alcohol, it being "on her breath" the probable cause. She told police she had a drink after the crash......
You knew this was coming;
On the other hand; it further proves Darwin had some ideas up his sleeve.
Also reinforces the common statements I preach a lot; You are responsible for your actions.
When You **** up, some may die.
Of course I'm hoping all are fine, Then lock up the dumb ass operator in a slimy jail cell somewhere.
It was not just the people on that boat having a moment, but every other boater out there and anybody fishing on the jetty were at life risk.
Being a hero or acting heroically implies a level of danger to yourself ... That baseball player was never a hero. Not even close. Playing with a little ball on a field collecting millions doesnt make you a hero. Now, the cop who pulls over a car at night not knowing if the driver is holding a gun or his wallet.... thats a hero. Or the marine who goes on another tour to some sandbox s--thole not knowing if he will come back Intact or alive... that s a hero. Or the Coasties who respond to a mayday in the worst conditions..." that s a hero. Or the CBP agent walking up to a group of illegals in the desert not knowing if of them is a cartel gunman with an AK 47 ready to shoot.... that s a Hero
As to policing drunken driving laws, i agree 200%. We need more
But we also need more enforcement of lights and reckless boating laws. Some jerk in a triple OB CC runnning 40 kts in a channel with a missing running light, undimmed electronics and cool blue LEDs all all over th front and hardtop should be pulled over and cited
Anyway sorry (not) Bout the rant.... happy new year to alll from the beautiful exumas!!
So... she pulled a Kennedy?
Just repeating what the media are reporting......
Ok, let me try:
I feel for the victims and wish them a speedy recovery.
Now what in the hell was that owner/operator thinking running at speed at night with his friends? I am sure they are asking themselves that same question.
No, they are probably making excuses of why it happened.
Quite frankly, I'm not one for government intervention of anything, but I believe we need mandatory licensing that requires a safe boating course and a test, for all ages and all sizes.
The fact that an owner can pay cash for an old 100' + MY like a Broward that's 199 Gross Registered Tons and get in it without insurance and drive his happy behind down the ICW without any form of training or knowledge is BS.
Have you driven in SoFl lately? Guess what? All these clowns are licensed!
like me it’s been years since you took the USCG classes (and likely more years than me) but guess what? Nothing on night running and night vision. Zero. Zilch. Nada. Rien.
And what were they thinking riding with the owner/operator. That always brings an additional question to my mind, why do the passengers allow it and stay aboard? I've never ridden in a car or boat with anyone who had consumed alcohol driving. We've preached to all the young girls around us to get out, call for help, do anything but don't allow someone to put your life at risk. Why allow your friend to put others at risk? To change an ad slightly, "Friends don't allow friends to operate recklessly." In the Fernandez case some friends said no but two went with him knowing his condition. They're now dead. We don't drink or serve alcohol often in our home but when we do, the price of alcohol is your car keys. We take them and lock them up, to be returned the following morning, non negotiable. You're welcome to spend the night or we'll get you a ride home.
I see operators of boats every day who don't have adequate training or experience to operate safely, especially in bad weather or at night. They don't understand use of charts or radars. We saw the boat at the jetty before it was removed and our 5 year old niece asked "Isn't it on the map" (meaning chart) and Stephanie pulled the chart up and showed it to her. She just stood shaking her head. She also looked on the radar and pointed it out. She definitely isn't going to operate a boat, but she's seen it done enough to know the basic tools. She loves following our progress on charts when she's with us. There are many operators who have no idea how to use charts and radar to supplement their vision. There is no better marked or lit inlet I know of than Port Everglades. She also said "They must have been flying" and asked when it happened and then said "We (meaning us) always slow down at night." We do very little night cruising but somehow she realized that when we are out at night we go slower. I was very surprised.
So, the operator was even second guessed by a five year old. Sure a reminder that we're teaching through our actions even when totally unaware of it. I wonder if the boat owners were from South Florida or if it was a rental.
While I agree that hoping the best for all those affected is sort of obvious, I don't get the reason why most contributors to this thread are assuming that the helmsman was both inexperienced and reckless, if not even drunk or worse.
I can't say the opposite of course, but I'm just wondering if there is anything among what has been reported so far which I am missing completely.
I mean, the accident happened at night, and the boat was going pretty fast - it doesn't take a lot of boating experience to understand that.
But do we know anything about the reasons?
For instance, of course we can smile at the thought that they were speeding because someone onboard was in need of urgent medical assistance, but is there any evidence in the news against this possibility, no matter how remote?
Besides, do we know for sure that all the instruments were working correctly?
And do we know anything about the helmsman experience (or lack of)?
Last September, someone who forgot more about helming fast boats than anyone of us will ever know, the legendary Fabio Buzzi, sadly died in an accident similar to this one. Only one of the 4 crew members survived.
The combined experience of that team was beyond belief, and the boat was equipped with all sort of navigation tools, including military grade night vision equipment.
Yet, some moron journalists immediately wrote that there was a lesson to be learned from that accident.
As if it would take more than common sense to understand that when cruising in low visibility, while not attempting to break a speed record, and with no other good reasons to go fast, it's safer to go slow.
Now, THAT is stating the blatantly obvious, if you ask me.
Much more so than just express the wish for a full and prompt recovery to those involved (in this case, as opposed to fingerpointing for the sake of it), or the condolences to anyone related to the victims (in the case of Buzzi tragedy).
MAPISM, it is a very well known, well lit Commercial Port. The 3rd largest port in the United States as a matter of fact. As a responsible Captain, one should navigate as fast as safe conditions permit, 65 mph in the dark is not one of those. The boat had the latest electronics and radar. Not sure why in a boat that speed, you'd cut the channel markers short to begin with.
You've been singing this song about the evils of alcohol and driving for years now on YF. I don't know if you are intentionally being misleading or you just have a bad source for your info, but distracted driving is the number one cause of traffic accidents in the US of A.
As Dale Earnhardt, F Buzzi and many others that press a speed envelope, in a confined arena, ready for people to die (why else do we watch), They kissed their ass's goodby a long time ago, in a almost safe for spectators arena. Nothing to do with this SFB special.
As rookies, The SFB boater has no clue of the value of their ass till they are just about, just before, rite before that splatter,,,, dead, dead, dead... And have no clue of any innocent souls taken out with them.
If the HelmsPerson (yuk) was experienced, this would not happen. If the HelmsPerson had a reasonable thought (that Darwin thing again), there would not be any speed involved.
If it was an emergency, choppers are faster than boats. What are you going to do in Liquordale inlet, Tie to a dock and waist more time waiting for a meat wagon???
I understand why we hope all are well. Till you understand how grave the loss of innocent lives are threatened, you may never understand my point.
When I was out of high school, I drove a T.O.L wrecker/tow truck. I've witnessed enough DUI carnage.
I've volunteered JFD and pulled enough bodies from the StJohns and Trout Rivers.
As before, we may never know what really happened. But I don't think I'm far off. SFB operator.
You are raising some well trained mariner(s), nice to hear their on the water situational awareness at such an early age.
I had a feeling the FB tragedy would come up, but it is not relevant to this case as it was a sanctioned race with the goal of breaking a personal best record.
The case here is about recreational boaters, so far removed from a team/sport/race/record attempt.
Folks, you are commenting my previous post as if I were defending the operator.
But also after re-reading it, I think it's pretty clear that I wasn't.
All I'm saying is that based ONLY on what I read in this thread and its links, in the boots of a judge I would want to know better before sending anyone to jail. That's all.
And of course I'm well aware of the difference between boating for pleasure and attempting to break records in sanctioned races.
But for those who aren't familiar with what happened that sad night to FB and his team, in a sense that is a sort of proof that when out there, sh!t can always happen.
I can assure you that if anyone would have suggested to those chaps, the day before the accident, to pay attention to the artificial reef where they eventually crashed, they would have laughed, and with very good reasons.
In fact, that would have been akin to teach grandma how to suck eggs.
Yet, unbelievable as it still is, the rest is now history.