List Your Boat Click for Cross Click for Walker Click for Lurssen Click for CL Yachts

Jongert Power yachts, why only 2 builds?

Discussion in 'Jongert Yacht' started by hrosetti, Jun 28, 2014.

You need to be registered and signed in to view this content.
  1. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2008
    Messages:
    11,172
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    Who says they don't understand sound signals? And yes it would be easier to give a wakeless pass if they dropped their speed 20% or even went to neutral ,as you went by, but with all the boats that pass them that would make their trip near 20% longer. As hard as it may be we come down to their speed then bump it up just enough to make the pass, then wait till they come inside our wake before bringing up the throttles and bring them up gradually so we don't leave them a roller coaster ride. Do that and I'd be surprised if you hear any complaints. It's called courtesy.
  2. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    13,608
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    Which is what I do. But they could make it a hell of a lot easier. I took a trawler up to NY at the end of the season and stuck on ICW when EVERYONE was headed South. Everytime a yacht was running South on plane coming up on me, I simply got on the VHF and told them to keep it coming and what marker I was at, and took it. I figured why should I inconvenience 30 other yachters a day.

    NONE of this side track has anything to do with Jonguert.
  3. JWY

    JWY Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2004
    Messages:
    1,342
    Location:
    Ft. Lauderdale
    The broker left Bradford's and took the listing with him. Same boat, still owned by STSTF, still for sale. I assume still has problems with the black water system and tanks.

    Judy
  4. Oscarvan

    Oscarvan Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2015
    Messages:
    929
    Location:
    Chesapeake Bay
    I think you are seriously underestimating the collective expertise of the Dutch yacht building industry of which you know little and I grew up with.

    And I have NOT contributed to the spreading of rumors of Haterass' demise as I have no knowledge of the situation.

    How average, if you can't win the argument you just start throwing insults. Nice try. I think I will follow the advice of the Buddha and disengage from your negativity. Oooooohhhhhmmmmmm.
  5. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    13,608
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    Whenever any yacht builder switches from building large sailboats to large yachts or vice versa, there are going to be a lot of upfront costs. It's manufacturing. Costs of different jigs, equipment to build the yacht, learning curve. tooling costs. The first couple of yachts or sailboats are simply going to be either in the red, unprofitable, or very little profit. It's the basics of manufacturing something new, there's a steep learning curve to building something entirely different. Generally when any yacht builder introduces a totally new model, it takes 5-7 yachts to turn a profit on the design after you figure all of the R+D, tooling, multitude of seatrials to even get the right props, molds (on a fiberglass yacht), warranty corrections, and on and on. You don't just go from building 90' sailboats to building a 90' motoryacht without a lot of additional cost for the first few. It's common manufacturing. Bottom line, if Jonguert made as much or more money building these motoryachts and had a market for them over sailboats, they would've continued building them.

    This isn't your post on Sams website? My buddy has been to the factory several times in the last 2 months and the factory assembly lines/sheds are full of boats in production and working and certainly not closing. Its the same member name and photo on that website:
    "
    So what’s everyone’s guess as to how much it would take to buy Hatteras? Who better to keep it going than a bunch of Hatteras owners?
    Where do I start....... I watched a bunch of pilots buy an airline once, twice..... three times actually. Poof. Poof. Poof. Loving the product is one thing. Running a business is another. Now there are quite a few yacht owners that ran successful businesses and bought their yachts. I suspect none of them would want to get into this business."
  6. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2008
    Messages:
    11,172
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    Do you realize how cheap money is today? Not hard to cover start up costs. By your thinking no company should ever diversify. I know one company that used to make pool tables. Guess they should never do anything else much less build a boat.
  7. nilo

    nilo Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2005
    Messages:
    680
    Location:
    Istanbul
    Well, I feel like commenting here after a long pause; cause I have owned and built several motor yachts and even got involved in a Dutch yard for a while and I am also enjoying a classical Jongert sailyacht for a while.

    A Jongert sailyacht has more or less all the systems on a motor yacht and much more. If I do not remember wrongly, one crazy owner had even got stabilizers installed. My ex-captain and friend Willem Kalma, who decided to retire after 15 years this year, has joined me to build the motor yachts at Moonen, after his experience in Jongert for 26 years as a project manager and was involved in building quite a high number of Jongerts. He has a very good insight to most facts and many rumours, which he has shared.

    I believe the main reason why Jongert not built motor yachts, as mentioned in the above, mostly was Mr. Dahm. He was selling sailboats and Jongert was building them. They had a better niche in this market segment, alongside with Huisman and Herbert exploited this to their benefit, until they forgot the value of getting new customers and repeat customers got too old to build new boats.

    By the way, I think the built quality is superior to most motor yard building yards or at least par with the very top...
  8. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    13,608
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    There is a reason they ONLY built 2.

    The pool tables manufacturer you're speaking of, ran most all of the boat manufacturers they bought, into the ground.....Sea Ray and Bayliner/Meridian yachts to name a few.
  9. Oscarvan

    Oscarvan Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2015
    Messages:
    929
    Location:
    Chesapeake Bay
    You've removed the quotes and with that all context as to who said what. Misleading at best, dishonest at worst. I responded in general to someone's suggestion of "getting together and buying the place". It was not in any way a comment on the specific situation (or not) at hand at Hatteras. Guess you're short on reading comprehension too, or indeed willing to twist my words.
  10. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    13,608
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    I simply cut and pasted it directly from the other site.

    Bottom line, if it was profitable for jonguert to build motoryachts, they’d have built more than 2 and still be building them.
  11. HTMO9

    HTMO9 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2009
    Messages:
    1,450
    Location:
    Planet Earth
    I am really fed up with all this BS about yards building sailboats being unable to build power boats. As I am not very famous for being a big friend of the Dutch yachting industry here on YF (but definately not for quality, only for their aggressive marketing), have I bought one or the other boat in the Netherlands. But in this case I have to defend Yongert Yachts. Being a repeat customer of Jongert and having visited both the old facility at Medemblik and the new yard facility at Wieringerwerf numerous times, I may be able to talk and judge a little bit about their abilities.

    The Dutch yachting industry works different then the boating industry in other areas of the world. The yards are remarkably networked and very much of the work is outsourced to subcontractors. The last Durch yard with a high degree of inhouse engineering and inhouse work in the Netherland is Royal Huisman (At least as long as my friend Alice Huisman was in charge). Almost all other yards building yachts are providing more or less the sheds, do the project management and the financial calculations. Some yards still do the steel or aluminum work for the hull or the internal wood work but even this parts are more and more delegated (outsourced) to specializing companies. You may find the same sub contractor doing work on a large power yacht in one yard and on a larger sailing yacht in the other yard. The HISWA organisation has really done a great job in keeping the industry going and growing. And the well known naval architects and design bureaus are all doing power boats and sail boats.

    Back to Jongert. Having owned several Jongert Classic Line sailboats of different sizes, I can tell, that there is not much difference in their technical setup with a power boat. The main difference is only in the hydraulic system and in the addition of the rig. Hull shape and stability rules do not make up for a complete different sience. The Jongert designer Tony Castro was and is well known for excellent sailboat and powerboat designs. Their engineering companies are working also for Hakvoort, Heesen, Oceanco, Feadship and others.

    If You are looking for a cruiser / racer sailboat, You would not look for a Jongert Classic line. These are mostly (crewed) long range cruising yachts being designed and constructed on the heavy side but able to withstand any waether. The special Jongert lifting keel worked well with me, also the boat was degrade to a power boat with the keel in the fully up position.

    Why did Jongert not build more power boats? Because it was not the neck of the wood of their loyal customers, period. My friend Herbert Dahm was only bringing in customers for sail boats and he also did his brokering part for used boats mostly for sail boats. It is pretty difficult to start a new market segment without a solid resource of loyal customers in this field.

    But this was not their biggest problem. When Jongert moved from Medemblik for space reasons to the new larger yard build from scratch at Wieringerwerf, they also changed their building process, their design philosophy and their marketing. That was the point, where they lost me. They invited a potential customer with the words, everything is possible and this customer found out pretty quick, that they only wanted to sell him a spec boat or an excisting design. Craftmanship had to stay behind rationalization and cost effevtiveness.

    And in the final stage of the independent Jongert yard, they had an ownership living hundreds of miles away from the yard, only showing up a few times a month and concidering the boating industry only as strategic investment. But now they are sold to a larger group and mostly doing maintenance work.

    In the beginning of ship building, all boats were sail boats and only the invention of the propulsion engines made masts and sails obsolete. A pure sailboat builder may be lacking special knowledge for some kinds of power boat design but with this networking Dutch boat building industry, their subcontractors and their international naval architects and designers this is not valid.

    Sorry gentlemen mouth-brain disconnect does not really helps on a high quality forum like ours.

    Just my 2 (Euro) cents
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2020
  12. Oscarvan

    Oscarvan Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2015
    Messages:
    929
    Location:
    Chesapeake Bay
    Thanks HTMO9..... Well said.

    As a side note, a good friend of mine lives in Medemblik, and when the yard there closed.... (Was it a fire? Storm? Forgot, but I thought there was something that triggered the move....) They were cleaning up and selling lots of stuff cash out the back door. He has a 45 foot 1940's wood Danish cutter turned motor sailor and it is now equipped with some very high end doors/ports/rigging etc......
  13. HTMO9

    HTMO9 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2009
    Messages:
    1,450
    Location:
    Planet Earth
    The reason for the move was mainly space. Old wooden buildings and the yard was located at the end of a narrow dead end channel in the inner downtown harbour. As their boats got bigger and bigger, they had a lot of trouble getting the boats towards the open water. I remember sweating blood and water, when my boat was transfered through the opening bridge to the town harbour with only a few inches of space to either side.

    But not very many newbuilds comming out of the new plant at Wieringerwerf nowadays. Just a repair and refit facility.

    Btw. Attached a picture of the foldable keel in its retracted state. Not usable for higher speeds and definately not for sailing but it never failed on me.

    Jongert folding keel.JPG
    HTMO9