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Italian yachts

Discussion in 'General Yachting Discussion' started by Jack Sparrow, Jul 11, 2015.

  1. Liam

    Liam Senior Member

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    Cranchi build a boat to a very competitive price.

    No Bed spreads, sheets??? It is possible that the owner forgot to thick the optional box or the dealer did not tell him?
    I would imagine teak deck to be thin in a Cranchi as it remains a boat build to be the most competitive around. I am not sure if they use laminated teak on the new ones as the old ones, and if they still put Iroko instead of teak. Saw that on some new smaller Cranchi's as well back in the past.

    Some access points in an overly spacious lower deck will end up being hard to get. Walking away from sportfish or explorer type yachts it is more or less the same in every brand, more so today with large midships cabins then yesterday.
    Anyways Cranchi wins the game for price versus quality. If you want top level and are ready to pay a premium I would say look somewhere else.

    I am not a fan of Cranchi, in them I hate the excess use of plastic, and some below par details as cleats and stainless steel works, but to be fair at the price they manage to fit there boats in the market and the quality trade off owners pay, it is a super result.
    I speak with a lot of European surveyors about Cranchi and while some small details are stupid (personally I do not want them) they never say a real bad thing about them.
  2. Jack Sparrow

    Jack Sparrow New Member

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    As I said in my previous posts I have had a meeting with a hmmmm no broker but private owner who sells the yachts ( no commission). I had also a cruise with them and this VZ 16 looks really nice. Engine looks like new - my marine friend was with me and said they are in really good conditio. Yacht serviced by Tantulli - I have found out that this is one of the best service. As a 12 years old I am very suprised how good it look inside and outside.

    Question of mine is how to check this company. I know there is houndreds of websites selling yachts but does any know this one ?

    Link Removed


    and here is their VZ 16

    Link Removed

    I am in touch with them. What should I ask/check take a look at ?

    Regards
  3. AMG

    AMG YF Moderator

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    Why deal with a Cyprus company claiming to work out of Fort Lauderdale and Rome, that not even have an office address? You are in Italy and want an Italian boat, how hard can that be to find..?
  4. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    They look very "thin" to me. Web site but no substance, no brick and mortar address. I would ask them for their Florida broker's license number/information. They say on their web site they'll meet you in Fort Lauderdale so they would be required to have one.
  5. YachtForums

    YachtForums Administrator

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    OB, you're like having a FLIR system onboard with your ability to see thru smoke & mirrors.

    Sparrow, I think it's highly unlikely that you're looking for your own Black Pearl. Pirates and posers aren't welcome here. Brokers who pretend to be buyers to stir interest in a boat or links to their listings are among the lowest form of rum swiggers on the net. You've been banned.
  6. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    I think you forgot one part of the process
  7. FeBo

    FeBo New Member

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    Cantieri di Baia has recently closed :(
  8. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    I manage one and without a doubt know very well many reasons why. I've never seen a boat built with a kevlar hull and a cap so heavily built and heavy that it would make Hatteras proud in 1970. Ohhhhh, and the electrical.....And you have to pray you get the boat on plane.
  9. Liam

    Liam Senior Member

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    I managed a Baia, and there is not much bad to say about them. Sure they have surface drives (re for difficult planning esp with dirty props), but as surface drives hulls go they top the list.

    Also in old Genoa boat shows (before 2005) they used to be one of the few (if not the only) doing sea-trials in heavy weather a very nice riding boat if you have a bit of skill on how to trim and run it.
    Would also add that the 63 Azurra would top the list as one of the best riding boats with surface drives around in any size.

    And Capt.J before you insinuate, Baia closed because they could not get an agreement how to reduce the workforce from 90 something and the currently non existing credit lines in Italy.
    It is hard to make it work when you was building twenty boats plus to about one or two a year with the same workers.
    They actually have little debts most of it is wages as far as I heard, and they decided to close the door down themselves.
    Something of a problem in socialist Italy, and that is why most of the medium sized builders closed.

    It was, still is as aftershock is not fully gone, difficult time in Italy since Monti technical government took over, from 2011 onwards and the Police Finance clamping every boat over ten meters for questions and so on.
    FYI this is much worse to the maligned Luxury tax you had in the early nineties in the USA.
    Italy also had a version of that which while not good did not affect so bad as it did in the states. In Italy it lasted about ten years, not the two-three it did in the States.
    A luxury tax was also introduced by Monti removed last year in mid-December after less to four years.
    Add to that the problem of the last decade that commercial banks are not commercial banks anymore and you have a big problem for gaining some credit lines for many industries.

    I really wish a fast return for them, since Baia made history a couple of times with some World first.

    Most of note is being the first to build a production boat with optional Arneson surface drives back in 1983, a hull designed by Americans Walt Walters-Jim Wynne-Don Aronow for the then launched B50.

    Anyways Baia hope to see you back soon, my gut tells me we will!
  10. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    Not insinuating anything, but if you close owing your employees wages, that's something I consider a real problem.

    The most common reason builders that size close in whatever country is under-capitalization. That's when credit lines become issues. A boat building business is not one to do on creditor's funds. And if you're only building one or two boats a year, then you're not really a builder anymore.

    Now, as to the best with surface drives, how do you compare them to Pershing? I've ridden in and taken the helm on a Pershing, but not a Baia. I haven't heard the issues on Pershing's in planing that I have on Baia, but perhaps Pershings are better powered. I was impressed with the Pershing, just not interested in surface drives.
  11. Liam

    Liam Senior Member

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    They become under-capitalized because of the market reduction and stupid politics in Italy from 2011 onwards.
    Not only them but most of them.

    Surely under powered and surface drives never work well together. The below being two examples.
    • Baia 48 Flash with 2 x Cats V8 435hp (35-6 knots with clean bum) or Volvo 480hp (36-38) being one. Would want this with the 575 Volvo D9 or Cat C9 or higher.
    • 63 Azurra with the small 1000hp units is more or less being the other. I would go for 1300hp plus.
    Anyways both of these where made to take customers from Pershing and the likes of Sunseeker, as with these engines boat was competitive to these builders.
    Yes Pershing did not make much underpowered boats. For example the classic 54 was available with Man 800hp but only on shafts.
  12. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    We've only been on Pershing with Arneson and the slowest we've been on cruised over 40 knots. While the performance curve was still different than a shaft drive, it was easy to get on top and could be held there at somewhat moderate speed. Pershing goes with 1381 hp MTU's and 1523 hp MTU's on their 62' and achieves 40 and 42 knot cruises. On the 74' they have 1948 hp MTU's. They have 900 hp MAN's on their 50'.

    I don't understand underpowering a boat with surface drives. The intent is speed, so why compromise it.

    I'd say Pershing and Riva (shafts) power their boats well. For my tastes, Sunseeker tends toward underpowering, but then they aren't performance boats. We're so much happier though that we went for an optional larger engine.
  13. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    And what about the 1990's to early 2000s 55 and 59' and 63's. They don't get on plane without a hope and a prayer. I manage one with 8v92's and the hull is poorly designed with too deep a V and not enough stern lift and LCG too far aft. You have to do better than 26 knots just to stay on plane or WOT with 50% or more fuel on board. This particular boat was origionally built for the owner of Baia himself. Even the 59's with 1150HP 12v183 MTU's also didn't get on plane without a hope and a prayer if they had fuel in them same with the early 63's. With the bigger motors, yeah they stay on plane at faster speeds once you get them on plane, but can't run them slower than 28 knots in rough weather or you fall off plane. The hull of the one I manage is kevlar, yet they overbuilt everything above the hull, deck and everything is cored with inches of plywood and the boat is WAY too heavy because of it. The 2'x3' hatch to the generator room must weigh 200 lbs. Electrically every Baia I've ever known of has been a nightmare.
  14. Liam

    Liam Senior Member

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    Just before surface drives redesigned the trim angles most boats planned at 25 knots, and sometimes with bigger engines it was more or less of the same if not worse.

    B55 and 59 Exuma is more or less the same hull, and the 63 Azzurra is also a development of that hull.
    Some years ago (1997?) I was on a a mid nineties build B55 which was shipped back on forth from the USA to the med at the time, and it's electrical system was very impressive all wire labelled and so on.

    Anyways surface drives will also suffer a lot from propeller growth, if you have some fouling it will be a nightmare with them. Can increase planning speeds by 5-10 knots very easily.