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Italian Shipyard quality...?

Discussion in 'Popular Yacht Topics' started by mwagner1, Aug 16, 2012.

  1. Belle

    Belle Member

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    Unfortunately, baby Riva is brown brown brown and brown. Much too sedate in color.

    Larger Riva is off white with charcoal trim and roof and brown deck.

    That's what you get with a stock boat, sedate traditional Riva colors and one color fits all. But it's ok cause it makes them distinctly Riva. I mean not like anyone looks and then is surprised by the builder. And they're like so Riva in all respects. I mean like good and bad and like and dislike Riva is what Riva is. Which I sort of like. I mean you start trying to be something else then one day you have no reason to exist. And when a builder has many brands they better not start cross breeding.

    Now our next boat will be white with baby blue, distinctly Belle....hehe

    But I mean like workmanship and such we've had no real issues, just a couple of cabinet latches. And at speed they're great and the extra weight is nice vs some in class. Hate the galley down but has to be in this type boat. Finish nice. 6' head waves with under 8 seconds and you'll pound, They're our fun boats. Both dock like smaller boats. Low so no wind issues. Not a lot of space but what they have is comfy. Both have the freaking weird 3 in 1 helm seat and it's like ok for canal stuff and slow but not so for fast and bouncy. Narrow.

    Nice speed, not much range. Baby one shallow draft, other tolerable but not great. Solid feel. Handle great. Now interior colors and style not what I'd choose either but it works. Funny too that at marinas they don't get the eye opening looks of snazzy go fasts but they just get a like classic respect kind of look. They're stuck to their heritage well. Done us well while we've chartered larger boats and figured out what we were doing there. Oh and the garage on the 63 works well so always have a tender in the........well, guess not the belly.....you can figure out the anatomy....hehe
  2. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    Actually if there was ANY traditional Riva color, it would've been the Ferrari red that they always used on their fiberglass speedboats.

    Speaking of things, I spoke to a higher up Cabo/Hatteras employee today that I've known for forever. I asked him how things were with the new ownership (he was there before the Cabo buyout, Cabo/Hatteras merger etc, he says that things are great with the new ownership and the new owners are very good for Hatteras/Cabo and have brought back a handful of upper employees that have left. They're coming out with several new models and better hull designs and possibly a different hull designer right now and that they're the best thing that happened to the two of them.
  3. Belle

    Belle Member

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    Well, I'd like that as opposed to going all the way back and trying to copy the old wooden ones.
  4. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    I hope that all turns out to be as hoped. So far it's looked like they're doing a lot more on the Cabo side than the Hatteras side. Hatteras was really downsized between lack of sales and then Brunswick minimizing their activity while trying to sell. I very much hate to see some of the brands with so much history and heritage like Hatteras at risk of becoming insignificant if not gone completely. Growing up in NC lakes my only ocean experiences were fishing charters three or four times when I was a kid. These were normally on Hatteras boats and that's what the docks were filled with. There is no reason both Cabo and Hatteras can't be successful. However, that's going to take a lot of effort, especially for Hatteras, to reverse the effects of the last several years.
  5. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    I don't know. Hatteras came out with the 60' MY a few years back and it's a very nice boat. They're releasing a 100' MY. Their SF are right up there with Viking, especially in the smaller end of Hatteras range.
  6. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    But their fishing line was reduced to four boats and only Convertibles, no traditional Sportsfishing models. This is compared to a huge offering that Viking has.

    As to the MY's, the 60 is nice. They offer several variations but seem to have only built one of the layouts. They offer a lower helm station but I've never seen one with it, in person or listed for sale. It gives up no seating and only a small cabinet to gain the lower helm.

    The 80's and 100's haven't really done much. The 100 is nice but they've only delivered one so far and it took about three years. They have their second one in build now I believe, but I'm not sure. They take custom time for a semi-custom boat and when you classify them as semi-custom their MY's haven't seemed to have much customization at all. The old line was that Hatteras customization meant you could choose the color of fabrics you wanted.

    I think one problem is that they've switched to a dealer network situation where the dealers are more committed to other brands. I think they have real challenges to get market back. I believe it has to start with their offerings but it also needs to include some changes to their approach to selling and marketing.
  7. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    I've seen both on the 60' MY. I've seen the lower helm and no lower helm. Also seen them with the staircase from inside up to the bridge and the other where you have to step outside of the salon and go up the ladder.

    As for the SF side of things. I think the express market is pretty saturated and there isn't enough room for it there. Aside from a Cabo, that crowd is also in direct competition from the big center consoles now. You also have to understand. Viking doesn't build ANY motoryachts. And, some Viking models hardly are ever built and other models are built quite a bit. So when you combine the Hatteras MYs and the Hatteras SF, they're building a decent amount of models.

    Cabo on the other hand, used to build 3-4x as many models as they do now, which the website shows 4......I remember at one time, they had the 32' Exp, 35' exp, 35' FB, 38' Exp, 40' exp, 40' FB, 45' exp, 43' FB, 48 FB, 52' EXP, and 52' FB. The biggest downfall was moving Cabo to NC. The factory in Adelanto used to operate like a well oiled precision machine and churn out high quality boats and lots of them and fast.
  8. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    I believe the reduction in Cabo offerings is a problem as well. I don't know how they can compete with only 4 models.

    And I don't think you can combine the MY and Convertible offerings. These are two separate areas. The MY's have to go against other MY builders and the Convertibles against other SF builders.

    As to the 60's with the lower helms, are you sure you've seen the current version of the 60 MY with one? I've seen the older versions but none of the recent ones. Not saying there haven't been any.

    The move of Cabo was obviously made for cost savings. But I think it also risks diluting and damaging both brands. What is right for one may well not be for the other.
  9. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    I've seen the older 60' with the lower helm.

    The moving of Cabo cost them a lot of money. Cabo turned a pretty decent profit it's last year in Adelanto (2011). It has lost a decent amount ever since the move. On a 40' express, it took on average 7300 man hours to build it in Adelanto. In New Bern, the best the NC boys could do was 11,000 man hours to build one. You tell me how you turn a profit with the difference in in-efficiency.
  10. MBY

    MBY Senior Member

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    Cabo had a pretty decent sales number in 2011, as for profit, not so much... Injecting bean counters and a corporate attitude into a very well running operation is like switching out the best tools money could buy for Harbor Freight tools. Sure they will get the job done and it will probably look the same but not without far more time wasted...
  11. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    I think there is an illusion perhaps that Cabo was better run than it was and that it was profitable prior to the move. The reality is that both Cabo and Hatteras had issues and still have issues.

    Now, do I believe the moves made combining the operations as they have are good? Absolutely not But those who want to make that type move can always figure out a way to justify it. The problem is that their theory often doesn't convert to reality. I believe it would have been easier to turn both operations around had they been run as separate entities. You still could have combined some non-operational administrative functions. But they are very different boat lines and treating them as one in many ways will diminish them both. Right now it's like Hatteras by Cabo or Cabo by Hatteras. The word often used is synergy and I really don't see the synergy between them. My previous employer acquired many companies and we never once chose to combine them. We would provide our systems to the acquisitions and centralize some functions. But never a complete combination.

    Now I hope that they will both experience great turn arounds and that any optimism proves right. There will definitely be learning pains. In theory manufacturing the boats at the same location makes sense. But can that be done in a way to achieve the costs both should achieve and to not compromise the build of either. I would think or at least hope that they did fully recognize the cost of moving the Cabo production. But this is something Equity investors or Venture Capitalists often like to absorb up front. To them reorganization costs are just part of the purchase price.
  12. AMG

    AMG YF Moderator

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    So are both Cabo and Hatteras from Italy..?
  13. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    Sure act like it, don't they? Many similarities between the industry in Italy and in the US, although yacht building in total is so much greater there.
  14. ttkrule

    ttkrule Member

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    I was asking myself the same question. :rolleyes:
  15. Liam

    Liam Senior Member

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    Before Brunswick bought Hatteras, a captain told me that Azimut was interested in buying Hatteras from Genmar. Apparently the offer was low though.

    Also the new owner of Baglietto, Gavio also said past September that he would like to buy Riva from the Ferretti Group part Chinese holding hence the opportunity arises.

    Anyways its nice to see turning well for Hatteras, but I still think that Cabo belongs down south where it was. It is sad to see it shrink, and see Viking having open road in the smaller size Sportfish markets. They have delivered over forty in the today over four different versions of the 42. That's quite some nice sales number in like three years, with half of these in a recession.
  16. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    Yeah, Viking pretty much couldn't compete in the Cabo territory for a while and almost abandoned building under 50' completely. I have seen several of the 42' around. I don't know what you mean by Cabo should've stayed down south? They were origionally started and built in Adelanto, CA up until Jan 1, 2012.
  17. RUSSLAND

    RUSSLAND New Member

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    It would be nice if Signor Gavio would buy the Riva brand. What lacks after the Carlo Riva child was bought by Ferretti is the personal touch and the general approach towards EVERY Riva owner which is MUST selling the boat like that. After acquisition all that has dissolved into all this sales-sales-manager-general manager stuff. IMHO Riva lost all the charm and personality first under Norberto Feretti and later in the Chinese hands. Now these guys just make the Italian icon so commercial that it will disappear soon. They should preserve it as the English keep their traditions, and it will hold all the respect and value for years ahead. You just print Da Vinci Mona Lisa in 1000 of copies, each time one different from the predecessor, and wonder: why is it considered so plain now?
  18. Liam

    Liam Senior Member

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    down South equals Adelanto California.
  19. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    Down here or in the US, Down South refers to "The South" or South of the Mason Dixon line.....North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, Florida, and Alabama. I guess that's where the confusion lies....LOL
  20. Old Phart

    Old Phart Senior Member

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    I dunno
    A little reading to keep the students in the membership from a failing grade in Geography and/or History. ;)

    Mason?Dixon line - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    P.S.- The American Civil War is referenced by some as the Civil War, and others as the War Between the States.