Discussion in 'Popular Yacht Topics' started by mwagner1, Aug 16, 2012.
Lazzara, Lavazza... Same thing.
That really sums up how I did feel after my Italian experience. I feel I see Italian built vessels differently than most in the yachting community since then.
Carl, Lars might know more about Italy than most outsiders.
Italians often have plenty to say about their own country and where it's headed.
Getting back to the opening post and Fincantieri's engineering capabilities here's an image (2007?) of the aircraft carrier Cavour. 244m length, 39m beam, 27,000t; up to 1,000 crew; commissioned 2009.
So I think this should settle it as for who Fincantieri is and their capabilities.
For reference, the helicopter aft is an AW 101, one of the largest in the world with a max take off weight of 15t. It carries up to 30 troops. The VIP version is being proposed for around $30m.
Crysler builds lots of cars, but they are by no means at the top of the quality surveys. They never have been. Most GM cars (a HUGE automaker, yes?) are at the middle, with some scoring far lower. Large sales volumes do not mean a high level of workmanship. By that line of reasoning, McDonald's would be gourmet food because they sell so much of it. Millions and millions of people every day can't be wrong--can they?
The voice of reason prevails! Good analogy...
The northern european yards have specialized over the years on building larger yachts which they have become proficient at and do with generally high quality standards.
The Italian production spans a wider range of sizes and is more heterogeneous quality wise starting from the "maintenance challanging" and quirky Azimuts, upwards.
So it all depends on how one looks at it. Flaws are magnified (because in their presence they'll be discussed while in their absence nothing is said) and generalized in oversimplification. This is probably at the origin of a general underestimation of the Italian industry's capabilities as well as the amusing, preposterous assessment of Fincantieri's capabilities offered here.
(There is also a certain amount of ignorance and anti Italian prejudice at play)
My take on the subject is that, in an aviation analogy, Fincantieri is to the northern euro yards what Lockheed Martin is to Gulfstream and Learjet. The rest of the Italian yacht industry spans from Learjets to single propeller planes.
There are so many things to consider when judging a luxury yacht, so in general you can not say that it should or should not be built in a certain country. Compare Riva and Bayliner for a start.
We have over the last 30 years seen the quality improved, almost beyond what is reasonable. More luxury, higher finish and larger yachts. There is a pretty narrow group of clients, brokers, designers and project managers that has raised the bar at the shipyards where they have placed their orders.
Then there are other groups of buyers that are more price conscious and happy to build stylish and large, but don´t care so much of the qualities that are behind longevity. "You only live once".
Without experienced buyers, brokers, designers and supervisors the shipyards can build as they like and this is often the ticket to get into the market. But also to get out of it and to create bad reputations, sometimes for a whole nation and this can take a long time to rebuild.
In my experience the biggest issue is that the workers building luxury yachts have no personal experience of this kind of yachting and lifestyle and this is regardless of country, but of course it is more pronounced where luxury yachts have not been built before.
So without good design and supervision, any shipyard in any country can fail.
That really does sum it up. Those words should be on the first page of the yachts for sale pages of all yachting magazines and on the window of every yacht brokerage.
It's another one of those Italian yacht builders that don't communicate to the general public. So here they'll tell you that they are worthless and you should buy a Dutch boat. ROFL
I know they've been building yachts for a long time. I read in an interview that one of their first yachts they sold to the inventor / maker of the car wheels chains for driving on snow.
I am working with another engineer who sailed on a Mondo Msrine yacht, he does not have anything good to say about them and it wasn't his first or last Italian boat so I would say they are somewhere near the U Bend.
ttkrule- It is obvious by your continual blowing of your Italian Trumpet that you will not accept any criticism so anyone reading this will hopefully see your posts for the one sided speel they really are. The fact that you try to disguise your nationalistic bias by suggesting what the posts of others will say shows that you probably are well aware of what is produced there but can't bring yourself to admit it.
Oooh some here can't take a joke
All I know is that I read of continued sales of yachts from Italian yards many to repeat customers as I'm sure is also the case for other countries, which contrasts to the perception being communicated here.
I also appreciate the insight of some members into the issues with build quality from Benetti for example which I found very interesting. I hope for more.
I also clearly accept that the build quality is on average better elsewhere (at higher prices).
The only problem I have is with you, trashing Fincantieri without any fact whatsoever, based on hearsay, replying to a cliches filled OP by someone who can't even spell the name of the yard in question, and against all suggestions to the contrary.
It's apparent that it is only you who is biased against all Italian (yachts) due, maybe, to some of your experiences (?).
I would like to hear from more people like k1w1's friend who have had experience with the Quality of Mondo Marine yachts.
UMMMMMM I'll step in here. Most Captains and Engineers are biased against Italian yachts based upon all of our experiences. Owners may be repeat buyers of Italian Yachts, but they usually aren't the ones running the yacht or trying to fix them. Some of the engineering and the way they have done things just boggles my mind sometimes, because there is no reasoning whatsoever. A 70' Azimut seajet I ran, the engine room door was so small (narrow) and ladder so steep you can hardly get any parts or tools in and out of it. A few Feretti's I've run have Mild Steel steering gear trapped in this very wet locker type area under the swim platform. Everyone else uses Bronze or S/S. I was on a technomarine where 12,000 GPH of bilge pumps, pumped into a 10 gallon tank that then had a 2,000 GPH bilge pump to pump it overboard. Even the simplest of repairs on most Italian yachts, tend to be a nightmare.
Their electrical is called "Eurotrash" by most certified marine electricians. Access to things is near impossible on a lot of boats.
And btw, I'm 1/2 Italian.
Allright! That is interesting and would also explain the apparent discrepancy I pointed out. Azimuts and Ferrettis feature questionable engineering design choices and are "nightmarish" to maintain for the crew and those of you who work on these boats don't like them.
I get it. You know someone reading the abridged version gets the impression that all Italian yachts are falling apart.
If it's not too much trouble, I'd like to hear more especially about other makes and recent boats. Possibly things that also affect the owner (although I appreciate the crew issues).
How exactly did I trash your shipyard and where are there praises of the same operation on YF other than yours?
Let's all settle down. I don't believe ttkrule is associated with Fincantieri, however he might be on the supply side. We all have a bit of bias based on experience, but there simply haven't been enough private yachts built by Fincantieri to make a determination. I think we can all agree, Fincantieri has the capability and the engineering to deliver world class ships and there is no doubt they are in a different league from other Italian yacht builders. For all practical purposes, they shouldn't even be included in this conversation.
Let's try to give this thread a positive spin by focusing on how Italian yards have improved their quality to be more competitive in the global market.
Yes, I think Fabio Perini has made a lot to the big sailing yacht market, especially with the sail handling, but also the fit and finish of the Perini Yachts. Now when he also started to build motor yachts under the old Picchiotti name I think he got Benetti to wake up, at least designwise.
Another shipyard I could think of as a quality builder is Codecasa. They have also ventured into more modern designs recently.
Lurker here....dare I ask how the members feel about San Lorenzo? Walking through at the Miami boat show a couple years back I was pretty impressed.
(Duck for cover, run back and take refuge as a lurker to avoid being flamed online for lack of posts/experience/size of @#$&. )