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Is the big SF market dead?

Discussion in 'General Sportfish Discussion' started by SHAZAM, Sep 9, 2012.

  1. Fishtigua

    Fishtigua Senior Member

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    If you want a good cursing boat, may I suggest anything old and made of wood.:D ;)
  2. CaptCook

    CaptCook New Member

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    True but I prefer cursing the Caribbean and cruising in the Bahamas in a newer boat.
  3. brian eiland

    brian eiland Senior Member

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  4. brian eiland

    brian eiland Senior Member

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    BTW if you want to see that cat I mentioned it is behind his house in Palm Beach. Are you in Fl also?


  5. CaptCook

    CaptCook New Member

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    Brian, sorry but I'm not too crazy about this size and design.

    So far, Horizon 60PC is the best cat overall that I have seen on paper.

    The only modern one I have seen in person so far was Marine Max Aquila 48 branded as Marine Max 484. I love the design and open ergonomic layout but I'm not too technical to judge the rest, the build quality and mechanical aspects of it.

    It would be nice boat for my family and friends and definitely for a charter business but I need to do some research on it. It doesn't look very seaworthy otherwise.

    MarineMax484 | 484 Power Catamaran | Power Cat Ownership
  6. Bamboo

    Bamboo Senior Member

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    With the new "Blank Check", "Marlena" and "C'est La Vie" I don't think the 'big' SF market is dead. Roscioli reportedly has a R-92 in the works, and Viking is building a 92 series as well.
  7. BrandName

    BrandName Member

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    Some other recent splashes (*or in production) in the big boys club.

    Betsy, 87' Spencer

    Georgia Girl, 81' Paul Mann

    Dream Time, 80' Bayliss

    Orion, 84' Bayliss

    *Singularis, 90' Bayliss
  8. Mike I.

    Mike I. New Member

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    86 foot Rybovich is in the works, too. Watch its progress at Michaelrbovichandsons.com.
  9. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    You know what's really sad though. 60-65' used to be the bread and butter size for all of these custom builders that were just mentioned.....nobody even builds that size anymore......Merritt's have 4 going on right now and the smallest is 72', Jim Smith, ACY, even Bayliss are all building 80+ feet..... and as far as I've heard Donzi is building that 92'
  10. PacBlue

    PacBlue Senior Member

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    Probably not too sad for the custom builders, as they can make a bit more margin in that size/class of boat.

    The production guys have been more dominant in the 60' - 65' market as of late and I am sure Viking and Hatteras are happy to have those customers. The "pool' of custom SF buyers is a limited one, even with Wall Street doing its tricks, and the market indicates that these are the guys who use to have 65' then 70'+ and now 80'+ boats on order.

    The real question is does this market ever reach its saturation point or will it continually climb beyond the 100' range, testing the limits of cold molded/composite construction?
  11. 84far

    84far Senior Member

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    Paul Mann's team has just started on a new 60'.

    Maritimo want to start on a bigger 75' - I guess flagship for them.

    I think builder's (like the one I'm working for at present), want the bigger builds simply because there's more coin, and can keep his workers in a job for a longer period.

    Personally I think the Custom market can get up to 130'. Cheers

    Far
  12. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    The real question is......at what size does a SF lose all of it's fishability. I was a mate on a 75' Jim Smith SF, long ago and far away......I had everything I could do to keep up with the cockpit.....especially when running 2 kites......but then you get into maneuverability and so forth and so on.......I would say 80' would be about the max for it to be really fishable in all sense of the word.....and that's pushing it.

    Now if you're going to say 100', why not just do a fish around style like a center console....with rod holders down the entire boat.....imagine the amount of rods you could run drifting with live bait......but then you have the height from the rubrail to the waterline becoming a problem......LOLOL
  13. PacBlue

    PacBlue Senior Member

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    Running the cockpit as a mate is a young persons game, just like the Olympics, where the 20 somethings dominate and the 30 somethings have to move on, usually up to the Bridge, in this instance, no offense to the old timers whose pure passion is staying in the cockpit "arena". ;)

    The production guys will be offering 90 footers and you will be seeing 100'+ from the custom guys. I tend to think of them as "fullbacks", bigger heavier duty versions of running backs, in US football terms. They can do the same tasks but not as nimble. Has an 80'+ SF really dominated a Tournament circuit yet? I suspect that being a true tournament winner/leader is not the ultimate motivation behind this class, leaving the 55' - 70' crowd fight for top dog on the tournament circuit.

    It's quite a bit easier to win the LOA battle than to finish as #1 on the Tournament circuit of your choice........
  14. PacBlue

    PacBlue Senior Member

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    I recall Lydia Yachts building a custom cold molded SF around 100', but am not too sure of any others that use wood as the key part of their composite construction, except for a possible recent Jim Smith in that size range

    The larger 120'+ custom SF boats I have seen built are usually aluminum or FRP Composite, I would be interested in knowing what the limit would be for a Cold Molded/Wood Composite SF?
  15. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    Actually Jim Smith Holds the record with the largest custom cold molded SF ever launched with Marlena coming in at 105'. But Logo's marine a Turkish builder is currently building a cold molded 114'. ACY launched a cold molded 90' Cest La Vie which has been clocked at over 48 knots. Plenty of Cold Moldeds launched in the 80' range with Merritt at 86', Rybovich building an 86', Bayliss with an 84' launched...... I've seen the contruction of the ACY boat and the entire thickness was around 6" on the hull. It had a coring in the middle which was maybe 4", then wood encapsulating that, then epoxy/fiberglass over it.

    But regardless of tournaments etc. These big sportfish can't even get in and out of A LOT of the places/marina's that the normal sportfish go to to fish.....at least in the Bahamas and Central America!

    I think you'd really like to read this article:
    http://www.americancustomyachts.com/downloads/press/showboats-international-september2013.pdf
  16. PacBlue

    PacBlue Senior Member

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    Lydia Yachts built some big cold-molded SF in the 90 - 96' range, That's My Hon and Marlena come to mind. I am wondering if the Jim Smith 105 will be the limit or is there another 10 - 15' left in that type of construction?

    The Turkish built SF doesn't seem as "go fast" as our American built product.

    I do recall the French Yard, Chantiers Navals de L'Esteral building a mahogany go fast Motoryacht at 137', named Acajou, she did about 34 knots.
  17. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    Is it the tournaments that really drive these super sized sport fishers, or just close to the water utility and reel cool looks?

    If I got back into serious fishing, it'd be in a 30 something express. If needed, towed to South America behind your 100 foot SF.

    I'd love to ad a big cockpit on the back of ole Bert. Allot of 58s have done so, some look real cool (some not). Not for big game tournament fishing, just a fully equipped all access to the water, including serious fishing.
  18. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    The last few Marlena's have been Jim Smiths. The current 105' Jim Smith is Marlena and the previous 95' Marlena was also a Jim Smith.

    Trinity built a 132' Sportfish "Marlena" in 1999 which was then extended to 144'
  19. 84far

    84far Senior Member

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    I just found a 45m - 147' S/F that McMullen and Wing have on there table... whether it has the green light to get built I'm not sure. Known these builders, I'm guessing hull will be alloy, superstructure will be alloy or composites. The boat actually still resembles an S/F.

    Pac I tried to find that boat your talking about, couldn't find it though, but I think I know what your talking about. I find these big alloy S/F only half resemble what I believe the true style of an S/F should be.

    Capt J, a 100' walk around.... I feel sorry for the deckies :D

    Far
  20. 84far

    84far Senior Member

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    Marlena is close, but lost a lot of the beautiful curves that S/F usually stock!

    Far