Click for Cheoy Lee Click for Ocean Alexander Click for Cross Click for Abeking Click for Burger

Is the big SF market dead?

Discussion in 'General Sportfish Discussion' started by SHAZAM, Sep 9, 2012.

  1. MBY

    MBY Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2009
    Messages:
    66
    Location:
    Newport Beach, CA
    They don't have a flybridge mold for the 44. In fact, they don't have any flybridge molds anymore. It's only express and hardtop boats from Cabo now. The last Cabo flybridge boat was built in Adelanto before the company moved to New Bern.
  2. 84far

    84far Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2008
    Messages:
    833
    Location:
    Brisbane, AUS
    Really Capt J, is it just me or are the Maritimo's looking a bit funny though... a few odd lines here and there - different line in the flybridge - cabin... I would wait a few years for the design to evolve (IMO). Plus don't they have an open transom - option...?

    I was talking to a skipper the other day, and the Aus boats (Riv/Mari) won't built as tough as the US S/F's... cabinetry breaking up, as the Cabo he was running seemed to be fine... We have a nasty chop in the NE breeze... Cheers

    Far
  3. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    12,733
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    The AUS boats (riv/mar) are not built as stout as the US boats. They're an average priced boat, with an average build quality, for an average usage in an average sea state. Of the SF in this size range, no doubt the Cabo and Viking are built far better. Yeah some of the lines on them are a little quirky, but they are a really functional boat for a family. The Maritimo more so than the Riviera. The Riviera just falls into the budget SF category.
  4. Caltexflanc

    Caltexflanc Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2011
    Messages:
    244
    Location:
    North Carolina
    Ocean Yachts probably does the best job of designing a SF for family cruising and fishing. They recently had a line of boats, Odysset, now apparently discontinued, that went even further in modifying a SF hull into a family cruiser. You can argue about their build quality, but they do hit a price point. Here is one of the Odysseys:

    2004 Ocean Odyssey Yacht Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com


    One can always go to one of the custom shops here in NC, such as Jarrett Bay, Spencer, Bayliss and accomplish this at very competitive pricing. For instance, Jarrett Bay recently launched a cool boat for Jeff Burton (NASCAR driver) that include a lower helm.

    46′ Persistence | Jarrett Bay Boatworks

    Or, see the review on this web site for the new McKinna YF. Mikelson makes some dual purpose boats as well. The old Hatteras Yachtfisherman and Cockpit Motor Yachts were the best of breed in my opinion.
  5. CaptCook

    CaptCook New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2013
    Messages:
    124
    Location:
    FLL
    Wow, this boat seems to have everything I'm looking for. The pros:

    - SF
    - Carolina flare
    - Nice Flybridge layout
    - Open salon with windshield
    - Family-friendly accomodations
    - Pod drives
    - Probably a nice fuel economy

    some cons:
    - there is no real need for lower helm station
    - where is the dinette?
    (salon layout could be much nicer and family-friendlier without the helm station)

    It seems to be very competitively priced to the similar production boats like Viking 42C, althoung still a bit over my budget. How is the build- and ride quality?
  6. CaptCook

    CaptCook New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2013
    Messages:
    124
    Location:
    FLL
    84far and CaptJ, I really appreciate your opinions, especially the objective and unbiased.

    I have no preference for U.S., European, Australian or South African models. I prefer quality, nice modern design and fuel-efficient power. Any Yachtfish or Sportfish that accomplish all of that would be on the top of my list.

    There is a very visible tendency among top SF towards quality inside and out, with only Viking so far offering the pod drives on top of that. I started looking at the custom models but they always come at premium especially if built to your own specs.
  7. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2008
    Messages:
    5,460
    Location:
    Miami, FL
    There was a sailfish tournament here in the grove last week end, I saw dozens of boats coming back in, almost all big center consoles. Every where you look in south Florida, you see intrepid, seavees, contenders, etc...
    Maybe th traditional sportfish are still doing well up north were you will have to travel greater distances to the canyons in colder weather but down here open boats hve taken over.
  8. CaptCook

    CaptCook New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2013
    Messages:
    124
    Location:
    FLL
    It seems to make a lot of sense in South Florida, the Keys and the Bahamas. Most of people I know own CC and can drive them on a trailer anywhere they want, from Texas, Georgia and Central Florida closer to the Gulf canyons and warmer weather.

    It's much harder to do that with SF, especially if one doesn't leave in Miami or Ft Lauderdale area. ;)
  9. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    12,733
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    Jarrett Bay will build the boat any way you want it. No lower helm, no problem. Dinette no problem and you'll get more in resale. The Cabo 40' Zues is a stout contender and great quality boat and I wouldn't hesitate to buy a used one.

    As for the center consoles. Yes, they have taken over South Florida and make a lot of sense. You can be in Nassau in under 4 hours on a nice day, or exumas 2 hours later. Easier on fuel with 4 strokes, and you can rent some really nice cottages for the differance in expenses and price. Plus they can get into a lot skinnier places than a 40' SF, like pulling right up to a beach.
  10. CaptCook

    CaptCook New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2013
    Messages:
    124
    Location:
    FLL
    CaptJ, I've heard that you don't like catamarans. If you had to choose, which one or two would you pick for crusing in the Caribbean?

    I've seen many and they look very attractive (to the "naked eye" as you put it), especially the latest MarineMax 484 and Africat 420/455. Are they really seaworthy to handle day passages in a good weather?

    What about Horizon PC52/58/60?
  11. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    12,733
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    Catamarans are good, until you get in too big of a sea-state where the waves hit the bottom, then they can ride REALLY bad. That being said, they are very economical and stable. They also have a lot of steps. I've delivered two power cats on longer deliveries. A 43' Lagoon that I ran from Corpus Cristi, TX to Fort Lauderdale and a 44' Lagoon from Fort Lauderdale to Cancun, MEX. We got in 7' seas off of the aft 1/4 from the west end of cuba to Cancun, it handled them extremely well, but they were at the maximum height of the hull design before the ride was going to turn South big time. Once an hour we'd have 1 hit the bottom of the hull in the stern and it felt like you hit the car in front of you at 20mph. They handled very well and were fuel efficient and actually a very usable boat. I wouldn't hesitate to buy one if it fit my needs. I have walked on the 58' Horizon and it is a nice boat for entertaining. You have the aft deck and flybridge that is the size of those normally found on a 100'+. Same for being able to carry a 16-17' dingy on the FB deck. The steps though.....In the master, it is 9 steps from the bed down to the heads. I could see someone killing themselves on those. Dockage on that size is also a big problem with that beam in most places. Again, if you're not planning on getting into 10'+ seas, they can be a good boat and really shine Island hopping in the Bahamas and BVI's.

    Center console catamarans are generally too narrow to have a beneficial ride for the Catamaran hull.
  12. brian eiland

    brian eiland Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2004
    Messages:
    2,857
    Location:
    St Augustine, Fl and Thailand

    Just happened upon this discusiion, but have not read thru the thread that far yet. Cou[ple of quick observations.

    CaptJ, those Lagoon cats that you took on delivery trips were likely real questionable about wing-deck clearance,...they really did not provide quite enough, particularly if you were to overload the vessel. I wouldn't be surprised if you got a few good licks to the flat undersides of those windecks, particularly in the stern. And you might well have experienced some 'sneezing' up in the bow areas.

    One thing that might reduce the underwing slamming is to make the whole vessel a litlle bit more narrow, and reconfigure the shape of the underside of the wing. This Tennant designed Domino cruising powercat does that. And have a look at some of the vast territory she is covering:
    DOMINO 20 Blog Spot
    Domino postsize.jpg

    DSC_0032.JPG

    Here is nice powercat owned by a friend of mine that I think could be 'converted' into a great fishing cat. Check out the rear deck area.
    Bill's powercat.JPG

    Bill's aftdeck also.JPG

    IMG_7673.JPG

    If you want to see some more pics of this design, have a look at this posting page,....by the way she is for sale as his treasure hunting days are limited now.
    http://www.yachtforums.com/forums/general-yachting-discussion/15706-new-yachting%3B-13-million-spend-3.html#post123583

    Brian
  13. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    12,733
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    Brian,
    Very interesting designs. Those Lagoons (43'/44') rode pretty good until you see 8'. (I've also run a 38' Lagoon and 42' Lagoon sailboats for a day). I can definately see a Catamaran being good for a certain type of fit for certain owners. Island hopping in the Bahamas/BVI's with a couple on board would be a good fit. They're also really fuel efficient and stable at 10 and 12 knots......and not bad at cruise either. In general though, I'm not a big fan of them, just because of the dockage restrictions and they have so many steps throughout the interior of the boat and the narrow staterooms you end up with.

    On the Mexico trip, I took 200 gallons of fuel in barrels, ran at cruise from 8am- 7pm, then slowed down and pumped the barrels into the main tanks. Both tanks hit the overflow with about 2 gallons of fuel left in each barrel for each side. Which was a nice thing to see, because I knew we were full full and had 400 gallons left. We had a crew of 3 on board, but no personal items besides our own.
  14. brian eiland

    brian eiland Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2004
    Messages:
    2,857
    Location:
    St Augustine, Fl and Thailand
    How about something like this 50 footer I termed a weekender, picnic vessel??

    You could build something like this realatively quick and relatively inexpensive. You could power it with outboards as shown, or modest size inboards. You would have tons of deck space, a cover 'inside/outside area. You could add a 'brief/tower' flybridge to it. You would have economy of operation, and great shallow water capability for all of the Keys, the Bahamas, and those reef areas down near Beleze.

    ...a Hybrid sportfish for todays market :cool:
    more photos here:
    http://www.yachtforums.com/forums/general-catamaran-discussion/13966-weekender-picnic-powercat-2.html

    PowerCat Thailand 1.jpg

    PowerCat thailand 2.jpg

    PowerCat Thailand 3.jpg


    I have some more photos if someone is interested. And I have a few ideas on how to build this thing, and/or how to have one built in Thailand.
  15. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    12,733
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    Brian,
    Very interesting designs. Those Lagoons (43'/44') rode pretty good until you see 8'. (I've also run a 38' Lagoon and 42' Lagoon sailboats for a day). I can definately see a Catamaran being good for a certain type of fit for certain owners. Island hopping in the Bahamas/BVI's with a couple on board would be a good fit. They're also really fuel efficient and stable at 10 and 12 knots......and not bad at cruise either. In general though, I'm not a big fan of them, just because of the dockage restrictions and they have so many steps throughout the interior of the boat and the narrow staterooms you end up with.

    On the Mexico trip, I took 200 gallons of fuel in barrels, ran at cruise from 8am- 7pm, then slowed down and pumped the barrels into the main tanks. Both tanks hit the overflow with about 2 gallons of fuel left in each barrel for each side. Which was a nice thing to see, because I knew we were full full and had 400 gallons left. We had a crew of 3 on board, but no personal items besides our own.
  16. CaptCook

    CaptCook New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2013
    Messages:
    124
    Location:
    FLL
    Brian, what your take on a new Africat 455 Sportfish?
  17. brian eiland

    brian eiland Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2004
    Messages:
    2,857
    Location:
    St Augustine, Fl and Thailand
    To tell the truth I'm not familar with it. I seem to vaguely remember that they were talking about a model such as this, but I've been preocupied with a liveaboard trawler project.

    I'd have to do a little reasearch.
    CaptCook, do you have some good webpage references you could give me....save me some seraching time?? You could email or private message them to me if you want.
  18. brian eiland

    brian eiland Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2004
    Messages:
    2,857
    Location:
    St Augustine, Fl and Thailand
    BTW the engine room on that 62' cat of my friend's has a 220hp Cummins 6 cyl in each side

    Attached Files:

  19. 84far

    84far Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2008
    Messages:
    833
    Location:
    Brisbane, AUS
    Capt Cook,

    check out Noah Thompson Design - Noah Thompson Design. Alloy Boats, Catamaran, Dive Boats, Barges, Landing Craft, Glass Bottom Boats, and more... This guy actually does some pretty good looking boats - maybe the Affinity II design could be an option...?

    The thing to watch out for with Cats are there are so many punter builders and designers out there doing them it has given multi hulls a bad rep.

    CaptJ made some good comments too. I find when the wind gets up to around 20+ knots, Cats pound a lot (crossbeam support), wave breaker helps under this area as Brian commented. Cheers

    Far
  20. CaptCook

    CaptCook New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2013
    Messages:
    124
    Location:
    FLL
    Far, thanks for the link. I'm still doing a lot of research and considering a wide range of boats, from cats to SF to mid-size M/Y. It's mostly for the Bahamas and the Caribbean, for fishing, cursing, camping on the islands and long-range Island hopping. I'm not planning to switch the boats every year. So, I'm trying to get it right.