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Is MMA the only way to become capt of a large vessel?

Discussion in 'Licensing & Education' started by cnkale80, Jul 12, 2008.

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  1. Ken Bracewell

    Ken Bracewell Senior Member

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    Perhaps that's not fair. The USCG licensing regulations are a moving target these days (albeit not as elusive as the MCA regulations have been) so it can be confusing and difficult to find updates to regulations when we, the working license holders, are busy out to sea (i.e. glad-handing charter guests).
  2. Marmot

    Marmot Senior Member

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    "The USCG licensing regulations are a moving target these days ..."

    How to get one has always been a nightmare but the limitations have always been crystal clear.

    As far as international equivalencies, it is a mess. The institution of the storefront yacht licensing business with all its permutations has only made things worse for everyone.

    The USCG rules regarding limitations are very clear, there aren't very many and they are easy to find online and in the set of CFRs that should be part of every licensed officer's toolkit. That is why I stated that the automatic upgrade is not, in my opinion, the greatest idea the CG has ever had. At least in the written exam they include a few questions that require a candidate to find and interpret written regulations.

    And while not trying to be confrontational, anyone with time to hang out on internet yachting sites has the time and resources to keep current with the regulatory changes, knowledge of which is part of a professional mariner's job description and responsibility. That part is the one that forms the boundary between what the STCW code classes as "operational" and "management."

    And finally, as a "working license holder" with an unlimited license I can assure you that a professional mariner is never too "busy" to understand his legal responsibilities.
  3. CaptPKilbride

    CaptPKilbride Senior Member

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    Marmot, I did take offense, and let me tell you why.

    I had the understanding that my 500 ton license had no equivalency in the ITC scheme. Ken Bracewell posted that the 500 ton domestic and 1600 ton domestic licenses had the equivalency to the 3000 ton ITC. This contravened what I had previously believed, and asked about it. At this point *you* jumped in the mix saying that a good captain would already know this. Since I apparently did not know this, in your world I am not a good captain. Which is why I am offended.

    I have always enjoyed good informative threads on this site, and feel that open dialogue is how we learn things. Your remarks were snide, and un-needed. Apparently you are quite an authority on these matters, and it could be so easy to simply set the record straight in a helpful and informative matter, as opposed to grading someone else in the process.
  4. Marmot

    Marmot Senior Member

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    The holder of a professional license is expected to know where to find and demonstrate comprehension of the regulations governing the exercise of the privileges that license conveys.

    I am not "quite an authority," I am a professional mariner who subscribes to the above statement. The quotes I posted came directly from online sources available to anyone willing to expend a moment's effort.
  5. YachtForums

    YachtForums Administrator

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    I don’t want to speak out of rank, but I would like to note…

    There have been a number of famous captains through the ages, ranging from Hook to Jack, but if ever there was a modern day captain that made a difference, was active in all aspects of the industry and was well-respected by all… it would have to be Kenny Bracewell. On the odd night in Lauderdale, I might group him into the Hook category, although I’m sure women have said worse.

    Capt. Kilbride was one of YF’s very first members, probably within the first 200 people to join YF and he has been active ever since. To me, that shows a higher level of passion and responsibility to his profession. He’s exactly the kind of person we want representing the position, although at 177 posts in 4 years… he should be scrubbing bilges.

    Marmot… you are so VERY well versed in the Ways of the Water that one can only speculate your position. I’m guessing that most salute you? (I’m not being sarcastic). If you are in this position, then who better to make changes that would help even the most diligent captains, as we have here, be better informed about their licenses and requirements?
  6. Marmot

    Marmot Senior Member

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    Geez, lighten up guys, is it the hot weather that creates such hypersensitivity?

    Using the term "good captain" no more implies that everyone else is a "bad captain" any more than that well used admonition to the "prudent mariner" means that all others are imprudent.

    I am not here to "make changes" since I am not in a position to change the licensing rules, no matter how much I would like to. Nor am I here to gore someone's favorite ox or knock the chip off someone's shoulder.

    Having spent a fair amount of time in the training and evaluation side of the maritime industry I am in a position to recognize and comment on a question that speaks to the fundamentals of one's certification. This isn't about personalities and it isn't about me.

    It is a shame that simply pointing out one of the more important aspects of professional licensing raises hackles rather than awareness.
  7. cellison31

    cellison31 Guest

    Possible answer to CaptPKilbride's question re 500 ton GRT vs ITC

    -----Original Message-----

    Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 11:58 AM
    To: D11-PF-Regional Exam Center
    Subject: Coast Guard License need ITC Tonnage reference

    Hi,

    Chris here and I have attached my 500 ton oceans license.
    Because of an international itinerary I would like the 3000 or
    appropriate ITC tonnage put on my license. What do I need to do?

    Hello Chris,

    In order for you to have your license endorsed for 3000 ITC you will
    need to submit an application requesting such action. I will refer
    to the CG website at: there you will find the
    application as well information on how to submit request.

    There are general requirements that you must meet, and it is not
    practical or possible to detail them in this email; so I ask that
    look for appropriate "requirement checklist" while visiting the
    above website so you can submit all the requirements to include the
    proper fees when making application.

    You can submit your application to this or any REC for forwarding to
    the National Maritime Center for evaluation.


    Regards,
    Carl E. Banks
    Legal Instrument Examiner
    U. S. Coast Guard
    Regional Examination Center
    1301 Clay Street
    Oakland Federal Bldg North Tower Rm 180N
    Oakland, CA 94612
    Ph 510-637-1142
    Fax 510-637-1126

    Hi Mr. Banks,

    Thank-you for your responce and application info. My research
    indicates that a 200 ton GRT USCG licence is good for 500 ton GT-ITC
    (international tonnage) I also see reference to the USCG 1600 GRT good
    for 3000 ton ITC and is stated on those licences when they were
    issued. I see no reference to ITC on my 500 ticket and wonder why.
    Before I go through the expence and time invoved in another
    application I would like clarification on the USCG current standing on
    this issue. Specifically what ITC equivalent will be issued for a
    fully compliant STCW 500 ton oceans license. I have searched the CG
    web sites thourghly and see only reference to the 200 or 1600 tickets
    relative to ITC equalivency not the 500 which is my case.
    Many thanks for your help as my current employment is contigent on me
    resolving this issue.
    Best Regards, Chris


    n Dec 12, 2008, at 8:00 AM, Banks, Carl wrote:

    Chris your situation can be described by the expression of being
    "stuck between a rock and a hard place". There really is no
    practical way for you to get 3000 ITC without taking you license to
    1600 GRT which will automatically give you the 3000 ITC.

    Regards;
    Carl E. Banks
    Legal Instrument Examiner
    U. S. Coast Guard
    Regional Examination Center
    1301 Clay Street
    Oakland Federal Bldg North Tower Rm 180N
    Oakland, CA 94612
    Ph 510-637-1142
    Fax 510-637-1126
    r. Banks,

    Just one last thought. The boat I am on now is 608 tons ITC - but as I
    understand it there is simply no ITC equivalent for the USCG 500 ton:p
    license?

    Thanks again, Chris


    That is correct, go up to 1600 and life is good.

    Carl E. Banks
    Legal Instrument Examiner
    U. S. Coast Guard
    Regional Examination Center
    1301 Clay Street
    Oakland Federal Bldg North Tower Rm 180N
    Oakland, CA 94612
    Ph 510-637-1142
    Fax 510-637-1126
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 12, 2008
  8. Marmot

    Marmot Senior Member

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    Gee, you mean like what was posted back in July?

    "Currently, for mariner licensing and documentation purposes, the only accepted equivalencies are for 200 GRT (domestic tonnage) and 1,600 GRT (domestic tonnage), which are recognized by STCW to be equivalent to 500 GT (ITC tonnage) and 3,000 GT (ITC tonnage), respectively."
  9. cellison31

    cellison31 Guest

    Marmot: You really need to get a life!

    Have a nice day....
  10. YachtForums

    YachtForums Administrator

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    Gents,

    Cellison31 has requested his membership to be removed. Let's all make an effort to keep YF a friendly, educational place.

    Thanks!
  11. Marmot

    Marmot Senior Member

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    "Cellison31 has requested his membership to be removed."

    Geez, talk about thin skin. It's difficult to be more educational than to quote the relevant USCG verbiage concerning the issue. Why anyone would or could take offense to that is difficult to understand.

    While I may routinely take jabs at the ignorance of those who are paid to know better, I don't make snide comments like the former member's.