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I'm under contract to buy a 2011 Azimut 58...

Discussion in 'Azimut Yacht' started by makesumwake2, Jan 5, 2020.

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  1. makesumwake2

    makesumwake2 Member

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    (had trouble posting my long post with quotes, posting 2nd half now, using bold and italics for OlderBoaters quotes)


    If chartering you have to pay the rates for charter pickups at quality marinas. That's where charterers expect to board. What do you do when the captain who said he'd be there doesn't show up?


    as i understand, if the boat picks up guests at the marina its based at, there isnt an extra charge. if i have to travel to another marina, then the pickup fee applies.

    im factoring in dockage costs to keep my boat at one of the most expensive and popular charter marinas on south beach.

    i plan on having backup captains, who are approved by insurance. im also getting my license as well. i would love to make yachting a lifestyle.



    Now, let's assume you spend $800.000 on a 15 to 20 year old boat. Many would say to prepare to spend $80,000 a year on it. I wouldn't say that's all for maintenance. But before we ever even get there, let's talk another huge number. Getting the boat ready, upgrading electronics, going through systems, renewing interior. This alone could be $50,000 or $200,000.


    for the aicon - refit has already been done, electronics already upgraded ive got the owner down to mid 6's on price. 10% a year of costs = 60k-70k. but im factoring in at least 100k for costs per year, not counting depreciation. i was hoping that would be enough.



    You tossed out $11,000 for insurance. Where did you get that number? Did that include no limits on where you are on hurricanes? What kind of hurricane deductible? Are you even insurable based on your previous ownership and experience? What will it take to be so. This is not even mentioning insurance for chartering which adds another major element.


    ive already called and got quotes for boats in this size and price range. quotes were including a clause for charters. obviously im required to have an approved captain(s) to operate the boat.

    i would get an exact quote before purchasing of course



    Approaching your first boat, you need to look at boats significantly less in cost than what you can afford because any estimate you make as to cost will be low. You also need to not buy dependent on chartering but buy what you can afford, then if you charter just use that to save money and perhaps even put toward your next boat, when you'll be more experienced.


    agreed 100%

    i currently own a 150k boat and 2 jetskis, and and another 40k in watersports toys. everything is paid off. i always pay 100% cash for everything.

    now im paying cash for the next boat. i can afford the 10%/yr expenses, assuming i dont charter it at all.
    but ideally i would offset some expenses by chartering and doing some of the work myself.



    I saw your reasoning of selection that "girls like" a particular style.


    in miami, the guys with money rent expensive flashy boats, to get the hot young girls here. and the guys want to get as many girls on the boat as possible.

    the tourists want their nice "instagram photos"

    my friend with a Hatteras has trouble getting charters at all. it doesnt look like a "yacht". the azimuts are out 2 or 3 times a week. the little cheap sea rays are out constantly, but you almost have to operate it yourself to make money. as i understand from talking to owners and other charters.


    ive been bringing girls on my friends yachts for a couple years now. the attractive girls get offers on yachts every weekend, so its nothing for them. its difficult to even get the girls to show up unless the boat is seriously nice.

    the day i invited a lot of girls out to my friend's newer 103ft azimut, every single girl showed up that i invited, unheard of for this to happen for me. it was 30 hot girls and 5 guys. good day :)
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2020
  2. makesumwake2

    makesumwake2 Member

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    lmao......im always happy to take one for the team !!
  3. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    I'm afraid you're interested it seems in the ugly underbelly of the charter industry, not something you'll find much familiarity with here. In fact, likely something many here would like to see curtailed. You're not chartering boats but you're running party boats. You're going for drinking rather than food and for discount crews. Now, I would have thought most of those you're targeting go in parties of more than six, more than you can handle.

    You decided before coming here who you were going to listen to and it's most definitely not any of us. It's those you know with their boats, giving you delusions of grandeur. It's charter brokers with promises. It's probably a good many illegal charterers or those constantly on the edge of legality.

    Guess while you're young and foolhardy is the time to do things like this. Good luck impressing the girls as that seems your real goal. I'm now out of this discussion as doing business the way I see you doing it is not something I want to encourage.
  4. mapism

    mapism Senior Member

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    Doh! I can perfectly see why an Azi 103 (103S, I suppose?) can look attractive.
    But 35 souls onboard? I mean, legally? If yes, well, only in America.... :confused:
  5. RER

    RER Senior Member

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    This is the question I have as well. What I get from your posts is that you want to run a party barge. Do you plan to load up with "30 hot girls and 5 guys" and head out?

    If you want to run with up to 12 passengers that's a bare boat charter and the owner can't be the crew. Can't even be on board.
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2020
  6. Brian G

    Brian G Member

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    RER brings up an excellent point. You have three options with regards to your charters:

    1. Limit the number of passengers to 6 and have a licensed captain do the driving. You can be that captain once you get your license.
    2. Take up to 12 passengers using a "bareboat" option. In that case, you need to give the option of letting the charterer provide their own qualified captain or they can choose from a list of approved captains you've already vetted. In this scenario, you are not allowed to be on the boat during the charter. Although that might seem a bit unreasonable, it is absolutely the law. Also, you'll need a MARAD letter allowing you to charter more than 6 and only up to 12 passengers since you will be doing this with a foreign made vessel. And make sure you've got a signed bareboat contract from the charterer before they set sail.
    3. Go through the USCG inspection process to get approved to take more that 6 passengers for a non-bareboat charter. If you go this route, you'll need a US-built vessel and be prepared to spend a LOT of time and money to get approved. If you're successful, the USCG will assign a new passenger limit based upon many variables such as the size, safety and stability of your vessel.
  7. makesumwake2

    makesumwake2 Member

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    it wasnt a charter. but just in case, we had 2 azimuts out. an 86s and the 103, docked up side by side. half the people rode in on each boat.
  8. jsschieff

    jsschieff Senior Member

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    Makesumwake
    It might not be a terrible idea to book three or four day charters on different yachts in the location you will base your new boat. You could see what competition is like, get some valuable information from the charter boat crews, and maybe even encounter a few crew who you can poach to staff your new vessel. It would be worthwhile research for you.
  9. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    You're going about this all wrong. Have you considered working on one of your friends boats as a deck hand to see how the chartering even works, what boats work and don't work. How to maintain a yacht, etc. Why not learn on someone else's dime?

    You ABSOLUTELY DO NOT want to cut price to get charters. They are priced as such so that you can make a profit. Cutting price will for sure do 2 things. 1- you will piss every single other person off that does day charters and they will both black ball you in the industry AND create as much chaos for you. 2. You will only attract the worst of the worst charter guests that will destroy your boat. What you do want to do is make friends with the other boats and kick them back 10% of the charter fee if they send something your way. EVERYONE gets double booked from time to time or has a mechanical issue that takes them out of the game, do the same with them.

    The boat is not what makes the charter boat successful. It is the CREW and the experience. You're completely delusional if you think an Azimut charters any better than any other similar Euro brand such as Sunseeker, Princess, Feretti, etc. etc. Most people don't know the **** difference. As long as it looks flashy and has the appropriately sized areas and amenities. You want something reliable, because waiting 3 weeks to get parts from Italy isn't going to pad your wallet if you have to cancel charters.

    Speaking of crew- You need very good crew AND extra crew. You get charters and referrals by having the best crew so that the guests have the best experience. I was talking to a customer the other day that has a 80+ ISH' yacht that has done the Miami day charter scene for a long time and is one of the busiest ones. He charters around 120 days a year but a mix of 4/6/8 hour charters...…...He builds into the price an extra 25% that goes to the crew as a tip automatically so around $4500. Plus whatever tips they get, the crew split also. He runs 4 crew, sometimes 5. Lots of repeat customers. Crew is what makes it work and you need the same crew, CONSISTENCY. You can't have different crew learning the boat every other charter. It shows with guests and does not make for a great experience. After all the wear and tear and maintenance and etc...….the boat makes a little......BUT, he's one of the busiest. You also have to be at a good marina that guests can get on and off no problem. I think you would be around the lower side of your number......Once you spent 2 years getting established...…...

    Quite frankly, from what I read, you're in way over your head. Work on someone else's yacht and do day charters for a month or two, then come back to the buying table. And, after seeing some playboy doing the dirty in the master stateroom with 3 skanky hookers, you might not want to charter your own boat after all.
  10. Norseman

    Norseman Senior Member

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    Well spoken, lots of good advice being doled out here, pay attention this is gold.:cool:
  11. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    No food? Publix platters? Nope. When we were doing day charters we served “yacht” meals even on half days. About $200 worth of food... but it guaranteed happy customers, happy brokers and great reviews.

    now if your goal is to run a bimboat operation... well...
  12. Sea Gull

    Sea Gull Member

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    This has been a fascinating read. It’s an aspect of boating I know nothing about. My wife and I run our 65 only for our own use, never charter, and never been a charter guest. But a few things stand out:

    Someone suggested general rule of a $800k boat costing $80k (10%) to maintain. While the 10% rule is debatable, the OP responded that he could get the same boat for $600k, so maintenance would be less. (If he we’re given the same boat for free, would he say the annual maintenance is zero?).

    I am surprised at I haven’t read anything about seasonality to this business plan. OP seems to be saying he can charter a couple of days a week, but is there really business in summer months? Seems like majority his business would be concentrated December-May.

    It’s possible in my mind that those of us over 50ish are out of touch with what young people with discretionary income value. Maybe they care less if the food came from Publix and more about how it looks on their Instagram feed. Maybe they care less about traveling to a pristine island retreat and more about who is on the yacht “parked” next to them at the sand bar. Maybe they would rather get “referrals” from drinking buddies and Yelp than from a tried and true yacht charter company.

    I wish the OP success in whatever form it takes. I also hope he will keep us posted on his progress as his plan unfolds. Please start a new thread.
  13. Oscarvan

    Oscarvan Senior Member

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    I don't think it's an age thing..... Some people seek a chef with a reputation in a restaurant with ambiance and go there for the quality of the food, service and total experience. Some people go to places where there's three taps of Yaeger, $8 wings all night, a slightly off beat power trio by the name of "Harry and the Orgasms" and ladies with frequent partial wardrobe malfunctions.

    "It ain't a party 'till the cops show up".

    There are a lot more of the latter than there are of the former.
  14. JoshCohenPHD

    JoshCohenPHD Member

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    It sounds like you only want the boat to just get hot chick charters. I would expect you to be blackballed pretty quick by the industry. Don't go down the route of the sleazy side of chartering. There's a lot of people here who have posted really great stuff I would listen to them.

    I myself am new to this site and I'm here for completely different reasons, but even if I did ever want to run a charter it would be for class and priority. Most charters that I have looked up in the last couple of days seem to price themselves pretty reasonably and to the operational efficiency of the vessel. The moment you start trying to undercut people it just makes for bad business for the industry as a whole.

    I would suggest before you even buy you just sit down and really think about what the purpose of this vessel is four and really think your priorities through. I myself just enjoy having the yacht and enjoying it for what it is. It's why I've been an owner operator. It's not everybody's back at e, but it's mine. If you seriously want to get into the chartering business think heavily about why you're doing it.

    I also suggest you watch a few of the captains that are on YouTube. and really listened to the stories they have to tell about what chartering is actually like. My personal favorite is super yacht captain. His insights are really fascinating. but don't get into the industry for the wrong reasons.
  15. Oscarvan

    Oscarvan Senior Member

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    The study of boat nuts in their natural habitat? :D Welcome.
  16. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    Day charters in Miami is almost a year round business, except for sept - nov which is slow, mostly because of weather.

    yes customers want flashy boats. Old classics will not work. That said they don’t care if it s a mutt, a ferret or a Lazzara.

    there is a lot more to chartering than having a licensed captain and a mate on board... especially when dealing with a party crowd. The crew needs to be experienced and mature enough to deal with the risks of having a bunch of inebriated, selfie addicted, hip gyrating millennials... safety procedures must be followed to a tee. We see many young crew dragging anchor... letting people riding the Jetski close to other boats... etc. all things that drastically increase the liability exposure of the owner.

    do yourself a favor and go sit down for a couple of hours on a bench at the fuel dock at Miami Beach Marina and watch kind of people that get on and off the boats that pick up and drop day charters there. Then ask yourself : “is this the kind of people I want on my boat?”

    i strongly suspect the reason many owners day charter is because they don’t use the boat as much as they thought they would and want to cover some of the expenses. But nobody in their right mind would buy a boat as a business plan. The old adage is still very true.... the quickest way to make a million with a boat is start with two millions :)
  17. makesumwake2

    makesumwake2 Member

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    Great advice guys thanks again.

    Im probably going to wait another year at least. build up more savings. and get more experience on my friend's charter boats.
  18. Oscarvan

    Oscarvan Senior Member

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    Sounds like a good plan.
  19. Alzira II

    Alzira II Member

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    By my math your looking at closer to 40k/annually plus electric-no small number, to keep this boat at a decent marina in south beach. That’s half your proposed annual expenses. No one has pointed this out, Am I missing something?
  20. Alzira II

    Alzira II Member

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    I have got to say this is the most entertainment I have had on yachtforums yet. I thought I was on thehulltruth for a minute hahah. If you could just get bravo or the kardashians to make a show about this venture you would be in the black real quick.