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I'm under contract to buy a 2011 Azimut 58...

Discussion in 'Azimut Yacht' started by makesumwake2, Jan 5, 2020.

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  1. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    Then you haven’t run any heavy boats in the US... there are no more than a handful of places where you may have to med moor.

    when in a stern to slip or alongside a Tee Head... you don’t need stern winches. You position the stern with gears and set your lines. Done. We have them on the 84 footer I run and I almost never use them.
  2. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    Yeah but ladies love them, and girls adore them, even the girls that never saw them...…………… what's wrong with you? :D:D:D

    hahahahaahaha…...
  3. mapism

    mapism Senior Member

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    No, I haven't.
    And then you never had to deploy/recover a drogue - on any boat, I suppose.
    Med mooring is NOT the reason why I consider winches essential. SAFETY is.
    Should I keep saying this for as long as I said that I don't like Azimuts, before you will get it?
  4. mapism

    mapism Senior Member

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    It would be funny, if it weren't that I've been reiterating what you just noticed for the whole thread.

    Now, if you don't mind going back to the best boats of the planet, can you please confirm me what I asked you in my post #103?
    Which in short was: am I right in remembering that your boat was designed and built
    without ANY watertight compartment?
  5. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    Why are you so hung up on water tight compartments???????? Those old Hatteras' like Pascal's, you could drop that thing from a Port crane onto cement and the hull would still be sound on it. But, seriously, it's a very rare event that something breeches a yachts hull. Can it occur, sure. But, there are many more serious issues to worry about, such as fire from inferior electrical.
  6. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    What safety? I think you should learn the basics of how to be a proper Captain, because a lot of things you are referring to are non-issues because we have other ways that are more efficient at dealing with them.

    Drogue? Are you talking about a sea anchor? You should have a light release line that goes on the end of it that when pulled, deflates the sea anchor......or just motor ahead on it while someone pulls the line in by hand, like a real captain would. Please explain to me how you are going to use a stern winch, to retrieve a sea anchor or even a real anchor that is deployed on the bow of the bow?

    I can get a real anchor up, just by using a ring with a polyball on it and driving around on it, can do the same with a sea anchor. They sell just the ring or ring and line that you can put on your own polyball

    https://www.amazon.com/Ironwood-Pac...hvlocphy=&hvtargid=pla-4584207581360908&psc=1
  7. mapism

    mapism Senior Member

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    Simple, because when I make a very basic question and I don't get any answer, I understand that I'm talking to someone who only cares about his own ego, rather than plain technical debates.
    And since ego fights are not something I'm interested in, I'll leave that to you guys from now on. Enjoy.
    Sorry Norseman, but you can put your popcorn away.

    PS: explaining you the difference between a drogue and a sea anchor is another thing I'm not interested in, as well as your pathetic polyball that could work for a dinghy at best.
  8. Oscarvan

    Oscarvan Senior Member

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    Dude.... you need to watch some Deepak Chopra videos or something....... :eek::D:confused:
  9. makesumwake2

    makesumwake2 Member

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    here is how im looking at it. tell if im wrong.

    i want to go to Bahamas, fairly often. do multiple 2 or 3 day trips. and do a 2 or 3 week trip out there, at least once a year. if i charter a yacht its going to cost me around 150k/yr to do this.

    if i buy a yacht (this aicon for example), and use it to go to bahamas now i just pay for fuel to go to bahamas. lets say 20k in gas/year.
    i can have it chartered also to bring in some revenue. i would manage it myself, not hand it off to some broker. i have a lot of friends in the charter industry here so i know a lot about it and i know the wholesale numbers that a boat gets.
    if i do absolutely terrible charting this yacht, it should bring in at least 120k/yr after paying captain/crew per day it is charted. my buddy is bringing in 250k/yr+ with his charter yacht, which isnt near as nice as the aicon.
    im estimating my yearly expenses are 100k/yr to maintain this yacht. dockage, fuel, insurance, maintenance, repairs, cleaning, etc

    i now get to go to bahamas for free, instead of it costing me 150k/yr. even if im wrong on some numbers, i still save a lot of money.
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2020
  10. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    Perhaps there is some sort of language barrier because you are in Sardinia. BUT, this forum is based in the United States and here, in the English language, a drogue IS a sea anchor.

    Can you please tell me how you plan on using a stern winch to take in an anchor that is deployed on the bow because your windlass broke? Or even a stern anchor? If the stern anchor and chain is light enough to lift manually, then you lift it manually, if it is not, all a stern winch will do is scrape the hell out of the stern 1/4 of your boat. In order to set a stern anchor in the first place, you let out additional rode on the bow anchor back way down, drop the stern anchor, then come forward on the bow anchor while letting out scope on the stern anchor.....so you'd just do this in reverse order.

    And yes, that stupid ring and polyball will easily bring up a 60 lb anchor to the surface, and very quickly at that, you'd be a fool not to have the ring on board in case of an emergency. Sportfish that anchor in very deep water use those all of the time...…the ones that go to the Canyons for Big Eye tuna in the NE......all you do is drive forward on the anchor in a big circle and the ring works it's way down the anchor line/chain and the anchor floats to the surface and stays floating on the surface and you can then easily pull the chain or rode in.

    This is not Ego, this is Experience speaking. You somehow go from comparing quality to water tight compartments. As if water tight compartments are a measurement of quality somehow.
  11. Oscarvan

    Oscarvan Senior Member

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    I guess if it wasn't too deep you could dive on the anchor, attach a line, pay out ALL the rode and maneuver the stern over it hoist it up. (and then bring all the rode back on board. PITA)..... But, we've all done some interesting McGyvering when needed. Wouldn't call that a routine operation. Having sailed quite a bit I've always had a variety of winches on deck. Used them for all kinds of things other than adjusting sheets and pulling halyards. Have pulled people up in bosun's chairs, hoisted engines off dinghies etc. They can be handy. Are they must have equipment on a power boat? Nope, especially since most 50+ power boats have a crane on deck somewhere. Which, btw one could use to save the anchor too......
  12. Brian G

    Brian G Member

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    Regarding your numbers Makesumwake, in my experience things never turn out as good as they look in an Excel spreadsheet. I have done some chartering myself to offset expenses but what I failed to plan for is the time it takes to manage the business and to maintain the yacht itself. As for the charter business, you're constantly taking calls from prospective clients in addition to managing finances and doing marketing.

    Another thing I didn't anticipate was the time it takes to manage a MY. I was a houseboater for about 8 years before making the jump to a yacht. For me, it's been a steep learning curve. There is just so much to learn .... lots of complex systems with something breaking all the time. (My boat is a 2003 so that might not be the case with newer boats.) I spend a lot of time doing preventive maintenance and the "list" of things that need attention is never finished. Much of what I've learned has come from this forum!

    The world of yachting has given me some of the most enjoyable, exciting and adventurous days of my life. But it comes at a cost, a pretty hefty one, not the least of which is the time it takes to run a business and properly maintain a big boat. Of course, I wouldn't trade it for the world but I wish I were better prepared going in. :)
  13. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    You've decided and won't listen to anything we say, so go do it. Going to charter a yacht with contracting for crew only when needed it seems rather than full time. Good luck. You have friends, you know it all. I don't believe you'll hit any of those numbers with that boat. I've chartered far nicer boats and looked at the finances of putting nicer boats into charter and the averages do not approach the kind of profits you perceive.

    And you're going to do it without using a broker? Where do you intend to find customers? Craigslist?

    If it was as easy as you think and the numbers worked as well as you think, then I'd have 20 boats that I'd be chartering. It would be a gold mine. It may be for 2-3% of those with boats being chartered but the others just hope to reduce, not eliminate, the costs of their boating.
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2020
  14. makesumwake2

    makesumwake2 Member

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    yes, i expect this. my business only requires a few hours week from me, so i have can easily put in 60hrs a week of work into a yacht. i expect to have to do that for a year at least to get every thing up and running.
  15. makesumwake2

    makesumwake2 Member

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    i dont recall mentioning any of this being easy. i think it will be a lot of work

    i wasnt anticipating profits. im hoping that in terms of cashflows, the yacht can break even (cover costs of charter fuel, dockage, insurance, and maintenance only).
    and if im wrong, but it costs me less than 150k/yr, then i come out on top.

    i would use charter brokers almost exclusively, especially at 1st. they give basement prices for new owners until reputation has been established.
    if i use their low numbers (half of retail basically), and assuming i rent it 15% of the year, i can break even on cashflow. obviously i lose big in depreciation and other expenses.

    ill do my own exterior cleaning, interior cleaning, and 2-week bottom cleaning if i need to.
    haul it each year or every other year for cutlass bearing inspection, cleaning, new prop speed, etc
    im paying cash for the yacht, so no loan payments


    Maintenance, repairs / yr $25000/yr
    Gas/yr $3000/yr (for charters the boats go 1 or 2 miles to sandbar, anchor, 1 or 2 miles back)
    Boat Insurance $11000
    Dock cost/yr $36000/yr
    total = 75000/yr

    1800 avg/charter (retail for this boat 8hr is 4000+) * .15 * 365 = 98000
    450 captain/crew (most charters arnt 8hrs, more like 4 or 5hrs) * 15% of year = 25000
    gross revenue = 73000/yr

    73000-75000 = -2000/yr

    there are many charter boats in miami, the captains are often running more than one boat as needed, so they can stay busy if they want to, even if one of the boats alone wouldnt keep them busy. also the younger captains enjoy having a flexible schedule, only having to work half the week if desired, etc
    if im mis-estimating costs, please let me know.


    if i dont charter it at all, i wont need the expensive dock, i wont be putting near as many hours on it
    now the numbers look like this

    Maintenance, repairs / yr $25000/yr
    Boat Insurance $11000
    Dock cost/yr $12000/yr
    Gas $20000 (bahamas, etc)

    TOTAL = $-68000

    68k is less than 150k that i would be spending otherwise
  16. Oscarvan

    Oscarvan Senior Member

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    Me thinks that if you have to hash your business plan here, there's a chance you don't know what you don't know.
  17. RER

    RER Senior Member

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    So it's going to be your full time job in addition to your initial $600K expense? ...and in return you will get a couple of weeks and some weekends in the Bahamas?

    There's nothing wrong with paying cash but I factor in what I could be earning on that money before I make a large cash purchase - it's all part of the true cost.

    Your numbers have changed from making money with one hand tied behind your back to falling short of breaking even. And yes you lose big on depreciation which you won't even be able to charge off against profits because there won't be any. What's going to happen if you run the numbers a third time?
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2020
  18. MM3

    MM3 New Member

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    1800 avg/charter (retail for this boat 8hr is 4000+) * .15 * 365 = 98000

    Wait - are you assuming the boat will do 365 charters?
  19. RER

    RER Senior Member

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    15% of 365 days = 54.75 days @ $1800 per day = $98,550 per year
  20. makesumwake2

    makesumwake2 Member

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    RER,

    im still lost as to where everyone thinks i said i was going to make money. i stated that revenue can be from 150k to 300k/yr.

    revenue isnt profit. its income before expenses. and the only reason i mentioned it was to show that the revenue could be put toward expenses. and one could in theory break even.

    i am hoping to avoid losing 150k/yr for my hobbie.

    i got the number from talking to many people in the industry, learning what boats rent for what amount, and looking at how often they go out. also from my friend who runs a charter yacht full time.

    now obviously im assuming worse case scenario numbers here to make my decision...aka....i work all the time, and make no money income (revenue - expenses = income).
    in this situation, i can afford to do that. i have the time, i have the money.

    im not saying its a great idea to plan on doing this. im saying i can survive the worse case scenario.