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Illegal charter crackdowns

Discussion in 'General Yachting Discussion' started by Pascal, Aug 20, 2018.

  1. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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  2. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    I'm glad they are doing so as well. They not only violate the law and hurt legitimate operators but they put lives at danger.
  3. Ken Bracewell

    Ken Bracewell Senior Member

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    Truthfully, 47 people is not very many on a 147' boat. Operating a boat that size (not under charter), one could easily ask Flag State for a one-day dispensation for a particular party. They would likely only require extra PFDs to be carried. Depending on their flag, I suspect they are already permitted to carry 30 (including crew). Most charter contracts clearly state that no more than 12 people can be carried, so if this was a charter the captain is clearly in the wrong.
    This smells fishy, and I wouldn't be surprised if we find out that it was a private party for the owner, and that the USCG has mistakenly applied commercial rules to the situation. Just a hunch.
  4. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    Could very well be. In reading the story I was wondering how the writer determined it was a charter. I figured it was, and still figure it might be, someone playing the game of a bareboat charter and then "suggesting/providing" the captain. Maybe we'll find out more.

    I also was surprised how small the potential fine is. Hardly enough to serve as a major disincentive.
  5. Ken Bracewell

    Ken Bracewell Senior Member

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    This is a perfectly legal, and only viable (until last week), way for a vessel of over 300T to be chartered in the US.
  6. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    Bareboat charters are limited to 12 pax plus the charterer.

    I guess anything is possible but I doubt the USCG boarding would issue citations and fines unless one or more pax confirmed it was a charter and not guests of the owner
  7. Ken Bracewell

    Ken Bracewell Senior Member

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    Perhaps. Another likely scenario is that the boat is owned by a corporation, and they couldn't prove that the beneficial owner of the boat is also the owner of the corporation. In my experience, the guys on the orange boats think more like cops than lawyers.
    It would be interesting to see how things play out.
  8. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    It can be legal and viable. However, it often does cross the line.

    What impact do you expect from the change of last week? I see minimal.
  9. Ken Bracewell

    Ken Bracewell Senior Member

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    Not much, likely. But it's a good way to beat the pilotage costs going to the Great Lakes.
  10. dennismc

    dennismc Senior Member

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    Is the law allowed to "pierce the Corporate Veil" in an in investigation in the US ?
  11. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    Depends. Corporate veil generally protects against civil matters. However, when it comes to operating a boat and possible criminal acts, it never protects a captain and if the owner behind the veil is personally involved then the veil won't protect. Also, the officers of a corporation can be held criminally liable for their acts and those of the corporation.

    When it comes to a criminal investigation, corporate veil have limited value. When it comes to a civil issue or civil fines or litigation it can be difficult to pierce but can be done in some circumstances.
  12. ychtcptn

    ychtcptn Senior Member

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    The law of unintended consequences, could be a boon for more yachts to do the Great Lakes, but to change flags and crew for a few months might not be worth it.
  13. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    I'd venture to say that the vast majority of yacht owners that operate their yachts as full time charter yachts in this size. Would not ever think about or allow someone to charter the yacht and bring 48 people on board. The day charters income wouldn't come close to the wear and tear of the foot traffic.
  14. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    I'm awaiting for the USCG to start checking out my area.
    I hope their reading this.
    Jax Fl has these problems. Just no causalitys yet.
  15. GhostriderIII

    GhostriderIII Senior Member

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    Getting picky with whom they bust. Forty-seven on a vessel that size is not really a problem. Wonder who dropped a dime on them?
  16. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    47 is fine on a boat that size but not on charter where 12 is the limit per US law. Exceeding the limit is unfair to the operators that go thru the inspection process, paperwork and costs

    They ve cracking down and don’t need to be tipped off...
  17. GhostriderIII

    GhostriderIII Senior Member

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    I don't know enough facts of this case to comment further, so I won't.
  18. Danvilletim

    Danvilletim Senior Member

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    Heard the owner took the charter outside broker channel. Rolled and the dice and got busted. But you are correct seems like someone might have tipped someone off.
  19. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    Customs is really cracking down on giving out cruising permits. If the foreign flagged yacht does charters of any sort, they will not give a cruising permit anymore.
  20. dennismc

    dennismc Senior Member

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    There is nothing illegal in a foreign flagged vessel picking up a charter in Ft lauderdale and cruising to the Bahamas, the duration of the charter must be such that the majority of the time is spent outside the US.

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