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How many people can you have onboard

Discussion in 'Yacht Captains' started by David.L, Dec 1, 2010.

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  1. David.L

    David.L Guest

    How many people can you have onboard before you need to have a captains license. If you don't charge?
  2. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    As many as you want and as many as your boat can safely (and comfortably) accommodate. I ve had up to 35 on my boat... (53 hatt)

    Obviously you need to have enough pfds

    License is only an issue for paying pax
  3. aeronautic1

    aeronautic1 Member

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    if you have a small boat, like my 20' center console, the coast guard will may look at the load limit issued by the manufacturer. In my case, it's 7 POB and is placarded.
  4. Tex999

    Tex999 New Member

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    This may be correct in the USA on US boats but anywhere else the general rule is 12. All yacht officer certificates (up to 3000t approximately 300') are restricted to 12 passengers. You must have liferafts/lifejackets (not PFD's) for all on board.

    Would you want to be responsible for 35 people in the water without liferafts for 35?

    J
  5. Garry Hartshorn

    Garry Hartshorn Senior Member

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    The original question was regarding a non commercial situation. The limit of 12 only applies to paying passengers.
  6. brunick

    brunick Senior Member

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    got a pretty nice idea there: what if i rent myself the "Oasis of the seas" and add like 8000 people on that ship without they're paying the cruise, just as "friends aboard" would that be legal?
  7. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    Actually commercially if the boat is inspected by the USCG you can carry whatever they allow on the Certificate of Inspection as long as the captain has a master of the right tonnage

    For instance 53 Hatt MY can be certified for up to 49 paid pax.

    Would I run in open exposed waters with that many? Obviously not. When I ve had up to 35 (friends, I don't use my boat comm.) it was on biscayne bay, protected waters. Shallow enough that if we d sink most people would stay dry!

    As usual it s all about that disappearing concept called common sense
  8. Garry Hartshorn

    Garry Hartshorn Senior Member

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    As you are renting which would be a charter and therefore commercial no, but if you were the owner the Oasis Of The Seas yes as long as you have enough lifejackets onboard
  9. Tex999

    Tex999 New Member

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    Commercial or private, I believe that you will only find 12 guest beds on 99% of Red Ensign yachts under 60m. Up to 36 on "small passenger ship" (yachts like Christina O and Annaliese)
    Licensing is not specific as commercial or private, nor is the insurance or is the need to have lifejacket and liferaft coverage.
    Apparently the USA is much more lenient allowing too many people on a private boat.

    J
  10. brunick

    brunick Senior Member

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    hm than all i need is a couple million dollar to buy the Oasis and i'll be the owner of the biggest yacht out there ;)
  11. Garry Hartshorn

    Garry Hartshorn Senior Member

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    True but for different reasons. Once a charter yacht accommodates or has the ability to accommodate more than 12 paying passengers it becomes classed as an ocean liner and must abide by all IMO SOLAS requirements as applied by the flag state. Apart from many design requirement it would also mean that the vessel would have to be staffed by commercially qualified officers and crew. Not commercial yacht crew as certified by the MCA.

    On a privately registered yacht there is no limit to the guests onboard as long as there is enough safety and emergency equipment onboard. As far as the authorities are concerned on a private yacht there is no difference between guests and crew and they do not care if people are sleeping on the floor.
  12. Tex999

    Tex999 New Member

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    This was going no where so here is the quote from the MCA, you can choose whether to believe them....

    "Jon,

    12 passengers is the limit for any vessel.

    More than this then the vessel becomes a passenger ship.

    regards

    Mike


    M.J.Sanxxxxx
    Principal Surveyor
    Ensign @ MCA Tyne
    tel. +44 191 xxx xxxx
    mob. 07802 xxxxxx
    e-mail: mike.sanxxxxxx@mcga.gov.uk
    website: www.mcga.gov.uk/ensign



    P Subject to the need to keep up to date file records, please consider your environmental responsibility before printing this email



    >>> Jon xxxxx <moxxx@xxxxxxxxxx.com> 11/12/2010 15:53 >>>
    Dear Sir,

    On a UK private yacht, manned by persons with "yacht restricted certificates" is there a limit to how many non paying (guest/owner) passengers allowed onboard?

    Jon xxxxx"
  13. AMG

    AMG YF Moderator

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    Must be new rules since yesterday..?
  14. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Tex999, It appears that Mike did not quote the rule, but instead gave you an answer and it was missing the word "paying". Above 12 (6?)paying passengers the vessel must be certified for commercial use and a specific number of passengers is assigned. A private yacht may carry as many non-paying passengers as can safely be done, i.e. PFDs and operating in a manner unsafe under the circumstances. In other words whether your cruise gets terminated is a judgement call on the part of the boarding officer. As for renting a 12 pax. (non-certified boat and then loading it up with 100 non-paying people, that would be a bare boat charter. IOW you are the defacto owner and take full responsibility. The deal is with the owner and his insurance company, and the # of pax permitted will probably be covered in your contract. Once you charge, you're back to the 12 pax or certification rules.
  15. Garry Hartshorn

    Garry Hartshorn Senior Member

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    Chapter I, Part A – Application, definitions, etc.

    Unless expressly provided otherwise, SOLAS applies only to ships engaged on an ‘international voyage’ – which is defined as ‘a voyage from a country to which the present Convention applies to a port outside such country, or conversely’. (Note that it is ‘expressly provided otherwise’ in chapter V. The first part of each chapter gives the details of which types of ship the chapter will apply).

    A ‘passenger’ is defined as ‘every person other than:

    (i) the master and the members of the crew or other persons employed or engaged in any capacity on board a ship on the business of that ship; and

    (ii) a child under one year of age.’

    A ‘passenger ship’ is a ship which carries more than twelve passengers.

    A ‘cargo ship’ is any ship which is not a passenger ship.

    The regulations, unless expressly provided otherwise, do not apply to:

    Ships of war and troopships.
    Cargo ships of less than 500 gross tons.
    Ships not propelled by mechanical means.
    Wooden ships of primitive build.
    Pleasure yachts not engaged in trade.
    Fishing vessels.


    While the flag state has the right to enforce there own regulations and requirements. The original question was in regards to a "pleasure yacht not engaged in trade" nor was it a British flagged vessel. I also looked at MCA regs but could not find a specific regulation regarding a "pleasure yacht not engaged in trade" not saying it does not exist but everything I found was regarding commercial yachts
  16. Old Phart

    Old Phart Senior Member

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    Wow!

    A Type I PFD is not legal!? :eek:
  17. Captd13

    Captd13 New Member

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    how is this applied to USCG licenses, because to my understanding the passenger limit, is that of the vessel, not of the license once you are over the 100ton mark. please advise
  18. dennismc

    dennismc Senior Member

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    Passengers

    In Canada, passenger complement is dictated by stability of the vessel and of course by crewing requirements and other safety items, all lifevests must be solas.
    For "small vessel" passenger loading, this is usually for vessels under 15 gt and 12 pac maximum, once the vessel goes over 15 gt it is subject to the same construction and stability as a regular passenger ship, once a private yacht gets certification to carry passengers it loses it's "private yacht" designation and becomes a "passenger vessel" subject to all the rules and regs, the exception is the "bareboat" charter designation which still keeps the Yacht private and subject only to usual safety requirements as applicable to private yachts. There are no "passengers" on a bareboat charter Yacht, if there are it is subject to fines etc etc..as such. the number of guests allowed is up to the operators discretion.
  19. Tex999

    Tex999 New Member

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    In Canada, lifejackets must be Canadian MOT approved, not SOLAS. I know because I recently counted over 600 on our vessel. When "we" refer to yachts we are not talking about your family boat but crewed private and commercial yachts over 80 feet long (for me it's still a boat unless over 100')

    Anyone ever dealing with the MCA (Bermuda, IOM, Cayman, UK, Malta, Gibraltar etc), knows that the MCA rules apply to both private and commercial yachts.

    I think some guys here are talking about the family boat and not code/classed yachts

    Jon
  20. dennismc

    dennismc Senior Member

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    Passengers lifejackets...

    Any vessel that carries passengers is a passenger vessel. However, under the International Convention for the Safety of Life at Sea (SOLAS), a passenger vessel is one that carries more than 12 passengers. This includes guided vessels used in sport fishing and hunting. If in doubt, vessel owners should contact the nearest Transport Canada Centre.

    One would think that a SOLAS vessel should have SOLAs lifejackets..ymmv