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How long before Marine Diesel engine Suppliers are audited?

Discussion in 'Engines' started by Kafue, Sep 23, 2015.

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  1. Marmot

    Marmot Senior Member

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    Multiple millions since around 2008
  2. bernd1972

    bernd1972 Senior Member

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    Every 2000 miles? Come on...
  3. SeaLion

    SeaLion Senior Member

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    I've owned VW TDI's but never had a urea tank. I did have some trouble remembering to fill the fuel tank since it didn't last more than a month or so.
  4. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    I don't understand making excuses for criminals. This isn't as it would be if accidentally they failed to make the standard, if there was some error along the way. This is intentional. Even worse, they chose to continue the illegal subterfuge for years. And it's not an unrealistic goal. If so, how does BMW make it? Moreover, how do all the truck manufacturers make it. They were the primary target and the ones for whom it was the most difficult task. When the regulations were put on the books, diesel cars were even less prevalent than today.

    If it's unrealistic, you say so and get the standard delayed. That has occurred over the years. Even after caught they tried to obfuscate it by saying a software problem and tried unsuccessfully to change the software to hide it again. Through legislation we've made tremendous advances in air quality. But it's not just the advances, had we not legislated, we could have continued worsening. Just as in safety legislation, lives have been saved. Illness had been prevented. It had to be legislated because no one could afford to do it alone for competitive reasons. VW did this for a competitive advantage and to simple sell cars. It worked. Now they should suffer severe consequences.
  5. bernd1972

    bernd1972 Senior Member

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    It´s not about making excuses. They chose an inacceptable way to reach the required emission values and they should be held accountable for it. Yes, the responsible persons should have to justify their actions in a process or accept their responsibility. Yes, VW should make it right for their customers . But there´s something phoney with the way that these things are discussed now...
  6. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    Nothing phony. Very straightforward. They committed fraud upon a million customers.
  7. bernd1972

    bernd1972 Senior Member

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    Just like many others that get away even unmentioned. But hey, let´s make this a big scandal.;)
  8. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    They made it a big scandal when they did it. This isn't someone's imagination. Is your attitude common in Germany, a feeling that it's no big deal and it's being blown out of proportion?

    Sure, there are people who break the law and don't get caught but that doesn't make it right or acceptable to do so. There are robbers who don't get caught robbing stores. Does that mean if I go rob one and get caught I shouldn't be prosecuted?
  9. bernd1972

    bernd1972 Senior Member

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    I never said it´s correct. Instead I wrote that VW needs to correct this misbehaviour and make it good for their customers. Read what I wrote if you want to confront me. I never said it´s not a big deal, but I do expect hidden intentions behind making it a big deal. What I wanted to point out is that double standards in business ethics is definitely not a typical german phenomenon, other are at least just as good at it.
  10. AMG

    AMG YF Moderator

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    The thing with this event is that all car producers are cheating the system, and up to now nobody was interested in making too much fuss about it. Both politicians, law makers and journalists have been aware of it since decades so I am not surprised that VW also played the game. Perhaps they were a little too successful in the US and somebody blow the whistle, but now when the lid is off, I guess we will hear more about the other makers too...
  11. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    Well, I have no double standards when it comes to business ethics. I think Enron executives and Arthur Andersen executives and Flying Pilot J executives got off much too lightly. I believe VW should face one of the largest fines in history and also some people within their organization should face prison time. I also have no hidden intentions in making it a big deal. My wife is strongly considering getting rid of her Porsche as well and it's her dream car.
  12. AMG

    AMG YF Moderator

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    Don´t forget to sell your Bentley's and Lambo's as well...
  13. bernd1972

    bernd1972 Senior Member

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    I absolutely agree with your position on business ethics. I would never say it´s all o.k. as long as you get away with it.
    But considering that US government authorities should have known about this issue for a long time leaves lots of space for questions like "why now?". I mean considering that the NSA records quite every email traffic in Europe and records every telephone call from our leading politicians and most probably all they can get from leading industries as well I´d be seriously surprised if that story went unnoticed. Of course that doesn´t mean the EPA was informed.
    Talking about fines and penalties: I´m not a big fan of that. Instead preemptive law enforcement like more consequent and realistic testing methods for type approval, keeping the SEC technoligically and concerning qualified staff on par with banks, avoiding food scandals with adequate controls and other things would make much more sense. Protecting consumers does not work with fines afterwards.
    Besides that: Hey, they did not meet the NOx requirements as they tried to keep the fuel consumption low and wanted to keep the cars cheaper with avoiding AdBlue technology. They failed and someone made the inacceptably wrong decision to cover it up. It´s not like they invaded the US...
    And after all it´s still a car burning fuel. I never had the illusion that my Mercedes runs on pink unicorn farts. But if your wife decides to sell her Porsche because of that... hey, why not? If it makes her happy...
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2015
  14. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    We don't own any.
  15. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    I have a Euro 5 VW Passat, I previously had a Euro 4 class one. Both are the 140kW models and the current one burns more than the previous one on the same journey.
  16. bernd1972

    bernd1972 Senior Member

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    I remember when catalytic converters came into play. Back then they found out that they had to feed the engine 3-5% more than what was needed to provide some extra energy for the conversion process in the exhaust system. So it´s 3-5% more emissions, but "cleaner" emissions? Could be similar with your Passat. Maybe the emissions are just not as clean as in the sales brochure but hey, who will be surprised? Considering the "minor" differences between test fuel consumption and fuel consumption in real life we shouldn´t wonder about that...
    Now back to the OP´s question, does anyone have info on what will happen to marine engine emissions? Or is boater´s world small enough to get away unnoticed this time?
  17. Marmot

    Marmot Senior Member

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    There are hundreds of easily accessed documents speaking to the issues raised by MARPOL Annex VI and the IMO Tier III standards that come into effect on Jauary 1, 2016.
  18. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    Most marine engines are based on truck/equipment engines, so that's the level at which it's generally addressed. Three primary engine manufacturers vs. thousands of low volume boat builders.
  19. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    Only engines fitted to vessels with a keel laying date on or after the new rules come into play will be directly affected, it has been hard to buy an old engine for a while with the exception of a dealer I am working with who represents a major brand and inssts there are no engines of Tier III available as yet. This is not what the manufacturers product list says.
  20. Marmot

    Marmot Senior Member

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    Be grateful, very grateful that, to date, most marine diesel engines are not regulated to the same level as terrestrial diesels, particularly as apply to highway vehicles.