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Heavy Carbon Sooting On Transom

Discussion in 'Technical Discussion' started by captTPT, Aug 27, 2011.

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  1. captTPT

    captTPT New Member

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    Have Volvo TAMD 63P's with 550 hours. Just ran 5 hrs daily for 3 days at 2000 rpm with several periods of idling. Notice heavy carbon soot covering the transom. Never had this happen before. Have always run at higher rpm previously. WOT for my engines is 2850. Could this be from running at 2000 rpm instead of 80% of WOT as is usually recommended? Engines otherwise perform normally. No smoke obvious. Temps normal. Power normal.
  2. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    It can be, what speed are you running at 2000 rpms, and what speed at cruise. It could be if you're running at a plow. It could also be dirty fuel filters or air filters.
  3. captTPT

    captTPT New Member

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    Have been running on Columbia River this week into heavy wind downstream and heavy current upstream. 2000 rpm will just allow plane at about 13.5 kns downstream and 11 kns upstream. 2350 will get me 15. I have dual Racors with vacume guages which are just now reading -5. Have been -1 to -2 until just recently.
  4. captTPT

    captTPT New Member

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    Marmot- I have the distinct impression you are trying to sell me something in your PM. Having reviewed fuel additives at length I have the feeling most are worthless. Steve DeAntonio from Passagemaker has just published an extensive review of these people can check out.
  5. Loren Schweizer

    Loren Schweizer YF Associate Writer

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    Gosh, now that you're an expert on fuel additives, you might call your local Volvo shop to become an expert on engine smoking. As in puh-puh-puh pay.
  6. captTPT

    captTPT New Member

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    Nothing approching an expert but I am able to read and I am able to recognize a reasonable evaluation of products by those who are experts when I see it. You might check out Steve DeAntonio's evaluation. I think most would consider him rather expert marine engines.
  7. luckylg

    luckylg New Member

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    Soot is likely the result of incomplete combustion; partially burnt fuel. This could be from any number of causes including fuel or fuel additives, problems with injectors or the fuel lift pump, fuel or air filters to name just a couple. I've had a lot of success working with Jeff Dykes at Cook Engine on Hayden Island when I had my Volvo's.
  8. CSkipR

    CSkipR Member

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    I know on my boat (deep vee) if I run less than 80% of my topend rpm number the boat lugs and the soot is heavy. If your top rpm number is 2850 then I think 2000rpm is low and could cause the problem. What type of hull are you running.
  9. Marmot

    Marmot Senior Member

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    Read the October issue of Dockwalk for real life trials by experts. The PM was just to be polite and avoid coming across as a salesman.

    The only thing worse than a narrow mind is a closed one.
  10. captTPT

    captTPT New Member

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    Ran this afternoon at 2500 rpm for 30 min, then 2350 (80% WOT) with considerably less soot. The Racor people say -7 on the guages before thinking about changing. Of course this pressure is upstream of primary filters, which could be enough obstructed to cause problem without effecting the Racor pressures. When I get home I think I will change the primary filters and see what happens. Appreciate your suggestions.
  11. Capt Bill11

    Capt Bill11 Senior Member

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    Isn't he the expert that thinks adding Algae X units, AKA magnets, to your fuel system will help keep your fuel clean? Talk about selling snake oil.
  12. Capt Bill11

    Capt Bill11 Senior Member

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    Would you be kind enough to pass that link along Marmot?
  13. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    Hi,

    The October issue doesn't seem to be available online so maybe Marmot was able to see what's coming through one of his contacts in the business, the rest of us mere mortals will have to wait a while yet.

    As for the Magnetic things being Snake Oil, I have encountered folks who have no reason to lie who swear by these things and read a very in depth report of a test carried out using CAT 3306 Engines and measuring the flue gas contents very accurately. The general consensus is that they do make a difference.

    In the meantime till something better comes along I will continue to use the system that has worked well for me, - Biocide and centrifugal separation.
  14. Marmot

    Marmot Senior Member

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    Yes, the same guy who wrote for years that sulfur was a lubricant in diesel and wrote that steam blew the tips off injectors. His "expertise" is about a mile wide and an inch deep.


    www.cerionenergy.com/http://www.cerionenergy.com

    The Dockwalk issue has not been published yet, maybe another 4 weeks or so.
    It details a set of trials on a large yacht that were monitored by EPA approved emissions test equipment operated by professionals under con tolled and repeatable conditions. There was no controversy about the results, objective, scientific, or subjective. The owner is delighted. Another boat ran from Panama to Tahiti and reported "no soot"

    I can guaranty that Steve D does not conduct any of his "tests" over an extended period or to recognized engineering standards. He is barely more credible than Pascoe or our favorite technical editor who has been exiled to Asia.
  15. captTPT

    captTPT New Member

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    Like most fuel additive manufacturers, Cerion makes a lot of robust claims. I look forward to reviewing the article you mention. However, 8-13% improvement in fuel economy with highly significant reduction in emissions sounds highly questionable to me. If they can back up their claims with independant reviews I'm sure people (including myself) will be willing to test it themselves. What is the $$ factor?
  16. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    On one yacht I used to run, the primary filters would be ok and the secondary's would be packed with algae causing it to run sooty and black smoke a little. It had 30 micron dahl's and DD secondaries, so change your secondaries as well.

    Detroit Diesel engineers told me that water in fuel will split the tip on injectors (which makes sense since you cannot compress water), I'm not sure if that's what the other guy means by steam, but water molecules in a combustion chambers heat would likely turn to steam instantaneously.

    I've heard the Algae X things work from a few sources, BUT you have to periodically take them apart and clean them or they stop working.

    I do like the Diesel Kleen brand of fuel additives and have found that they work in regards to Algae and such.
  17. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    Hi,

    Would the Chief Engineers initials on this particular boat be TH by any chance?
  18. Capt Bill11

    Capt Bill11 Senior Member

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    The only independent test I saw on them showed zero positive results. I remember the claim used to be for fuel magnets that the magnetic field tore the cell walls of the bacteria/algae apart thus killing them. I often wondered if that were true, how people manage to survive an MRI.
  19. captTPT

    captTPT New Member

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    Thanks Capt J. I will definitely do that. Racor says the elements "may" need to be changed when the pressure reaches 7. My current pressures are 5. I also noticed yesterday my WOT rpm is down a bit to 2700 instead of the usual 2850. Clogged primaries may well explain the whole thing. You never know what level of garbage is in the fuel you get.
  20. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    Hi,

    Do you have a fuel pressure reading for the engines themselves - either after the on engine filters or a differential across the filters?

    If you do find that your Racors are still pretty good and your secondary filters are fouled try to find Racors closer matched in filter Micron size to your secondaries, this will make the secondaries last a bit longer at the expense and ease of changing the Racors.