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Hatteras retrofit cost and ideas

Discussion in 'Hatteras Yacht' started by Captain Dufy, Nov 9, 2015.

  1. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    Were mixing two different comments (post).

    During a whole ship refit, Pascal is going to 12 & 24 Vdc systems. Ripping everything out and going to two new main 12Vdc engines. While he is going to 12Vdc mains and ripping out and re-doing everything, of course he is doing away with 32Vdc systems.
    From post #16 (Captain Dufy) that stated 24vdc was a big savings to shop for. I was trying to comment that 32Vdc was not to expensive to maintain and may not be a tall consideration when shopping for a boat.
  2. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    32 volt is not expensive to maintain, but it sure as heck is difficult and getting more difficult. If you need to repower, which might be in-evitable sometimes given the age, having a 24 volt boat is much easier. 24 volt also allows A LOT more flexibility with updating any systems.
  3. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    Other than the inconvenience that it is not on West Marines retail shelves, what is difficult?

    Please define any systems.
  4. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    Inconvenient- locating the parts, some are no longer made such as 32 volt g 4 lightbulbs and other bulbs, the blower motor, most of the time the scroll cage bearings are bad too so you have to buy the 24 volt model, then hope the 32 volt motor is in stock then have to change it around. bilge pumps only Rule 2000's made in 32 volts, they short cycle in the shower sumps. Battery charger, only one I know of is a 30 amp Sentry, well what if you need more than 30 amps.

    Difficult- changing any of the systems. Want to update to new toilets, nobody makes a 32 volt toilet other than galley maid stinky saltwater flush toilet, so you need a DC converter. Want to upgrade to a modern windlass, well does anyone make a modern 32 volt windlass? Want to change to modern light fixtures, same deal cannot get the bulbs for them. So you either end up with a bunch of DC to DC step down converters all over the boat, or??? Even engine gauges are hard to find and limited, so are you going to put diodes on every single one of them? What about blowers for the heads? The 32 volt galley maid freshwater pump, want to change it to a variable speed so you don't have a 20 psi pressure differential, nobody else makes a 32 volt freshwater pump......The last 32 volt boat made was almost 30 years ago......Yeah, you have it so you live with it. But if you really want to do updates to the boat, it makes it difficult
  5. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    It's late.
    Again, those who shop don't have a problem.
    It's not on the marine discount shelf.
    If's it's an emergency, without a spare, your in trouble.
    32VdcStuff is out there.

    2 years later, J has not found a G4 lamp. He may have me on that.
    Or, Someday, I'll shop for one. The internet is a great tool.


    32Vdc Chargers are available from;
    Centry
    Newmar
    Charles
    Analytic Systems
    La Marche
    Powerstream
    And I have some NOS Raratians collecting dust.

    32Vdc Pumps from Rule in the US;
    Rule standard 2000 3700 4000 GPH
    Other models available in Canada.
    Mailed a 1750 to Australia last year. I still have a 800 NOS.

    32Vdc Bilge/sump pumps;
    Jabsco diaphragm pumps start at 180 GPH

    Just ordered a new 32Vdc Shurflow potable water pump.
    Accumulators are a must on any water system.

    32Vdc Heads;
    Galley maid
    Raritan
    Head Hunter
    SeaLand
    Still have a new 32v LetraSan collecting dust.

    32Vdc Windlass
    Ideal
    Have spare 32v motors collecting dust.
    Maxwell

    32Vdc light bulbs and lamps
    Anchor
    Perko
    Aqua Signal
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2015
  6. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    Shopping takes time and creates delay. Also, if you're not mechanically inclined yourself, you may find yourself in areas where the people you're dealing with don't have a lot of 32V knowledge and experience. If I had a functioning 32V system, I wouldn't change. However, if I was doing a major refit and changing much of the equipment, then I'd bite the bullet.
  7. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    Agreed.

    As Pascal is doing, changing engines where anything other than 12Vdc is an expensive up charge (don't think 32Vdc is available) then Yes, re-engineer to more off the shelf stuff.

    But don't be scared of an old boat with 32Vdc stuff. The stuff is out there.
  8. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    If I have to be inconvenienced regularly and wait for parts, search for knowledgeable people when cruising, then I'd find that very scary. Saying the stuff is out there doesn't make it a desirable situation. Also, if one doesn't face it now, they likely will later. I don't believe in continuing with outdated technologies in any endeavors. Yes, if you're already stuck with it and it's working for you, that's fine, but to jump into it head first isn't very appealing. You're an industry professional and while you might find it ok to deal with that would likely not apply to the average person.
  9. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    I understand what your typing and your points are good.
    I've been involved with the 32v stuff for a while, I am used to it and don't see many issues.
    Not to argue but offer an other thought on what you typed.

    If I have to be inconvenienced regularly and wait for parts
    I would hope any boat owner would stock lamps & light bulbs no matter what voltage. Maybe a bilge pump also.

    Of course a owner is not going to spare a head or battery charger.

    while you might find it ok to deal with that would likely not apply to the average person.
    And I don't think the average person is going to worry about servicing the head or charger themselves.
    A Service tech makes a call and orders the correct device be it 12, 24, 36 or others voltages.
    Same time delay.

    Again, please don't take this as a your way/ my way thing. Your comments are correct.
    It's just not a solid good/bad topic.
  10. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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  11. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    No, the service tech either has the others in stock or can pick them up locally.

    As to stocking parts, we do. But then we also don't have a 32v system and we stock a tremendous number of parts ourselves. On top of that, we have access to a plethora of parts locally. I just never liked downtime and if I was prevented from boating by a wait on parts (other than for major engine work) even if just for a few days, that would be enough to turn me against a system.

    I also see your pointing to Don's as a resource. For bulbs, hit or miss, old stock, no listed price, limited quantities. Yes, for the one's J hasn't been able to find, a place to turn perhaps, but not the way I want to have to search and scrounge on a regular basis.
  12. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    That's the problem, when you need a 32 volt item, most places will have the 12 or 24 volt item in stock and not need to be ordered. The 32 volt you have to call this place and that place and this place. Sure you can find the stuff eventually, and it's probably easier for Rcrapps because he has a 32 volt yacht and knows all of the normal sources to find stuff. But eventually it becomes frustrating. A lot of bulbs are simply no longer made in 32v, as well as other items. I'd milk a 32 volt system as long as I can, BUT, if I was doing any major changes I'd swap it out in a heartbeat. BUT, much easier and more desirable on resale to have a 24 volt boat to begin with.

    I do carry a spare battery charger on most of the boats I manage that do travel. Nothing will kill a fun trip like a dead battery charger. On most yachts after running the normal living items: lights,pumps, sump pumps, etc. the batteries will only last a day or two......even conserving a bit.
  13. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    It often doesn't matter as 24 v items can be hard to find in stock...
    Even a decent Capacity 24v charger in a place like Myrtle beach... Or a 24v water pump in NEWPORT RI... Or a 110lbs anchor anywhere between Titusville and Annapolis

    All My personal experiences

    And done get me started with multi million dollars boats having only ONE battery charger!!! Pathetic

    Sure on the hook you can run one main for an hour to top off the house bank but less than ideal in a marina.

    As usual it s not back or white but shades of gray. Is it worth converting a boat from 32v to 24v when it's all working, no... When repowering ? Sure

    Would i pass on an otherwise good used boat because of 32v? No.

    Actually it s not that hard to have a few things running off 24 v on a 32v boat by adding a couple of battery and a sub panel.

    Or if battery space is a concern you could tap 3 8 v batteries out if a 32v bank. Yes, you will reduce bank life a little but for a few Low amp items it s not big deal
  14. Captain Dufy

    Captain Dufy Member

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    Capt J , again your information is very helpful . I have enjoyed reading your comments here and on other threads . The technical sides of some of your writings are unparalleled! Thanks again .
  15. Captain Dufy

    Captain Dufy Member

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    Pascal,if you were to revamp an 84/85 Hatteras , why not install 24 v and add on newer equipment. Would it not add to the value of the boat? Also if a gyro where to be added,what would be better 24v or 32v? Finally,not being very handy, wouldn't be safer to go 24v if electric repairs were needed in a remote area?
  16. Caltexflanc

    Caltexflanc Senior Member

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    Depco still sells 32v Jabsco blowers. In my six years of full time living aboard and cruising my '81 56MY, converting away from 32 volt seems like a completely unnecessary item. You can install NewMar converters to get you 12 or 24 where you absolutely needed and small converters from MarineBeam if you want to go to LED lighting. Plenty of 32v stuff, including things like bilge pumps, chargers, inverters and light bulbs, still available, and starter motors are rebuildable.

    As for the OP unless you are a highly skilled DIY person, the type of refit you describe is extremely expensive; 500k will just get you started. Not to mention the base costs of just maintaining a boat in good condition to begin with. I agree with the statement about not replacing the Detroits, just maintain and rebuild. I remember finding the bill from two PO's ago from Annapolis Yacht Interiors (I think that's the name), for an interior redo in 1996, it was well north of 100K, and a lot of the cabinetry and case goods were left OEM. The subsequent PO and I each put in another 100k over the years and I could spend another 100k in a heart beat, and this is a boat in beautiful condition. But a new fancier davit here, galley and salon floor there, slight electronics upgrades and additions, a new genset or two, and as the great Everett Dirkson put it all of a sudden your talking about real money.

    The 56 is a fantastic boat, we loved it as a full time liveaboard and cruiser. But we bought one that was pretty much turn key and had had a succession of "open check book" caring owners.
    For the kind of time and money you are contemplating (and reality will dictate both of them being double original budget), I wholeheartedly second the notion of buying a boat where the work has already been done, let that guy take the instant hit, and get yourselves out on the water.
  17. Captain Dufy

    Captain Dufy Member

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    Ok ok , Caltexflanc you got my attention! I don't want to start something and regret it when the project become to expensive. I have been looking at some more recent suggestions and one made by Capt J (thread 3) . Look at some newer models . And one of the models that got my attention was the Hatteras 60 foot enclosed flybridge 2002 and after. It seems to have space with dinette and kitchen up and a beautiful hull for coastal cruising. Stairs to bridge are inside (the wife is going to like that). I would love to have any comments on some kind of transom platform for a dingy and a closed back to add space and privacy (canvas most probably). I have not made up my mind yet on what Hatteras boat I want to start looking at. Right now I just feel Hatteras is a good value for the investment and will continue being so for years to come.
  18. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    If you re doing a full refit like I am doing then yes, convert to 24v. Absolutely

    if you are referring to stabilizing gyros they run off AC power (generator) not DC (batteries) except for the control unit which doesn'r use much power and could be run of a 32/24v converter

    Safety is a non issue, really not much of a difference between 32 and 24v. It's going to spark either way but not
    Much more :)

    As to detroits there are a few reasons I decided not to rebuild mines.

    First, Detroit two cycl technology
  19. Captain Dufy

    Captain Dufy Member

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  20. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    Another thing to keep in mind. All of these older Hatteras do have a 12 volt bank (generator), for running electronics and such. So you could run some things off of this such as a control unit for a gyro. You don't want to convert 32 volt items throughout the boat to 12 volt as the wiring size won't be sufficient.